• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

Burton perplexed by pensions pickle. Will the govt do the right thing?


Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
An investigation on the future of pensions in Ireland ordered by Joan Burton has come back with their findings, namely that we all need to contribute more from a much younger age.

It's often been called a timebomb, and it's genuinely good to see Burton taking the pension problem seriously. Simply put: People are living longer and the tax payers of 40 years time won't be able to cover the current lot's state pensions. Effectively the number of people at pensionable age will double by 2050.

The report suggests a hardline, that all middle/high earners should put in 15% towards a pension fund on a mandatory basis.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/pensions/million-of-us-face-paying-15pc-of-wages-into-pensions-29205237.html

The report commissioned by Social Protection Minister Joan Burton recommends that most of the one million workers with no pensions should be signed up for a private scheme and given no option to leave it. The study -- from Paris-based international think-tank, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) -- says the most "effective and least costly" way to deal with the mounting pensions crisis is to force cash-strapped workers to put aside some of their wages to fund their retirement.

At present, six out of every 10 private-sector staff have no work-based pension -- and rely on the state- contributory pension when they retire.

With the number of pensioners set to explode over the next three decades, the taxpayer can no longer afford to keep state pensions at the current level.
So what are the options open here? My feeling unfortunately is that Burton will balk from what needs to be done and, without offering numbers to justify the decision, allow a smaller % and that it's not quite mandatory.

She has spoken of a system where those who have no private pension are automatically enrolled in one, but can then choose to opt out.

Up to now, the expectation was that contribution levels would be around 8pc, with workers, the State and employers all making contributions.
The govt (And opposition) need to unify and take a hardline on this. It is the real, material, long term financial concern the state faces. People need to start saving their money for their old age and they need to start doing it now. I can't see a way out of this under than a decent % of earnings going towards their pensions. Phase it in over a period of time (5% will be taken in 2 years time, 10% in 5 and 15% in 8).
 

Franzoni

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
16,469
Give money to a pension broker or a bank..........:lol::lol::lol:

People would be right to be fearful of a pension or savings in institutions as european governments and our own have shown that it's a piggy bank to be raided when it suits.......

Better off getting a good strongbox or safe in a secure location and throwing whatever you can afford into it every week.... alternatively try and lead a healthy lifestyle and find something that you can keep on doing into old age to provide for yourself..some professions are less physically stressful than others although doing something a bit physicial can bring it's own rewards.....not only financially beneficial but good for the body and mind as well.....
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
Another case of the state telling people what to do.
What's your plan to solve the coming pensions problem? Halve the amount of the state pension?

Because right now, the rich are going to be fine. They're the people smart enough to earn a lot of money, they're the people smart enough to be saving into a pension from an early age. They'll be fine, they're not going to be reliant on the state pension.

It's the poor/lower earners who are going to be screwed without a radical solution.
 

nonpartyboy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
6,857
The gas thing is all we ever hear about is the gold plated pensions public servants get, a the ones at the top do, but lower PS since 1995 are paying close to 15% for their pensions, yet everbody in the state who pays prsi gets the contrib pension which PS won't get.

And if you never work a day in your life you will still get a pension.

Lets see our anti ps poster squeal when they have to make up the difference between their prsi and 15%......
 

Sense 0f Wonder

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
2,508
Because right now, the rich are going to be fine. They're the people smart enough to earn a lot of money, .
Let me guess... you are a country bumpkin, yes? And a "young professional"? And one of the first of your clan to attend university?
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,211
Easy solution: every week the State should give a free packet of cigarettes to all workers on the minimum wage (as well as those on social welfare and working in the public sector). Many will get addicted, pay loads of taxes in their lifetime and 50% of them will die 10 years before they should. (As an add-on the State should fully privatize health insurance so that prices rise so high that the non-pensionable cannot afford it).
 

Schomberg

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
12,341
Isn't it the case in other EU states that the employer is obliged to pay a % of wage towards your pension? Makes it more expensive for business to employ people of course, but it seems to work.
 

Pissyknickers

Active member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
232
Timely report but what's missing in national dialogue is ;

1. Tax transfers from workers with no pensions to 15% of the workforce has to stop. PS pensions must then become self funding.

2. Open actuarial study on PS self funding that defines the economic cost and identifies the personal contribution is badly needed to disavow the PS that the recent levy is sufficient. It isn't. The tax transfers ie subsidy is still huge and grossly inequitable when half the private taxpayers paying it have zero pensions.

3. Passing exclusively to the private industry with high cost retail products is reckless due to citizen knowledge deficit. State needs to set up a centrally administered scheme with bargain basement costs, less drag on performance and outsource asset managemt to the NTMA or NPRF who can decide on crucial asset allocation decision and select appropriate asset managers.

4. State needs to intervene at retirement point through the above fund, offering citizens access to pension guarantees instead of ditching them into hugely expensive annuities or exposing them to ongoing market risk in post retirement funds (ARFs).
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,034
What's your plan to solve the coming pensions problem? Halve the amount of the state pension?
.
Rather than hand it over to shysters in the pension industry why doesn't everyone chip in to a national Pension Fund that would used for infrastructure projects like roads which are tolled and the profits returned to the fund. The same for hospitals, railways, whatever. Instead of borrowing from banks and the like the government would have the money from the taxpayers to use. Our national debt would be owed to the people.
 

Schomberg

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
12,341
What's your plan to solve the coming pensions problem? Halve the amount of the state pension?

Because right now, the rich are going to be fine. They're the people smart enough to earn a lot of money, they're the people smart enough to be saving into a pension from an early age. They'll be fine, they're not going to be reliant on the state pension.

It's the poor/lower earners who are going to be screwed without a radical solution.
Thing is, even those rich people "smart enough" to save for pension from an early age aren't guaranteed anything. My father's (substantial) pension was virtually wiped out during the crash. So he's gone from being in a very comfortable position to almost certainly being obliged to rely on a state pension later on.
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
Easy solution: every week the State should give a free packet of cigarettes to all workers on the minimum wage (as well as those on social welfare and working in the public sector). Many will get addicted, pay loads of taxes in their lifetime and 50% of them will die 10 years before they should. (As an add-on the State should fully privatize health insurance so that prices rise so high that the non-pensionable cannot afford it).
The Czech solution!! Smoking deaths 'can help your economy' - Telegraph

EARLY deaths through smoking save the Czech government tens of millions of pounds a year in health care, pensions and housing, according to Philip Morris, the world's biggest cigarette company.

The report was commissioned by the makers of Marlboro, who control 80 per cent of the tobacco market in the Czech republic, to examine the overall cost of smoking to the government.

Putting the best possible gloss on the health problems that the tobacco industry has only just admitted, the report claimed that between £17 million and £21 million was saved in 1999 because smokers died years before their normal life expectancy
Soylent Green is also another option.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,034
Isn't it the case in other EU states that the employer is obliged to pay a % of wage towards your pension? Makes it more expensive for business to employ people of course, but it seems to work.
Maybe not the cleverest thing to do at this time I'd say. Also it will result in employers cutting back salaries to make up the difference.
 

Schomberg

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
12,341
Maybe not the cleverest thing to do at this time I'd say. Also it will result in employers cutting back salaries to make up the difference.
Definitely a bit of a minefield, but maybe worth looking at?. Some kind of radical solution seems necessary. don't know what the ins and outs of this system are in other EU states, I was just hoping someone could enlighten me :)
 

enuffisenuff

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 27, 2011
Messages
3,462
Yep....private pensions the way to go.....oh by the way.....lets just put a little levy on them just to encourage you....
 

wexfordman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
7,877
If Bruton is worried about people funding pensions, perhaps she should have a word with noonan and ask him to kindly stop stealing the money people have saved into pension funds!

I mean talk about not knowing your ar5se from your elbow!!
 

Bow tie

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
351
If I don't stop reading this web site I may not make pension age.

Anyway, if adding another deduction nonsense starts the simplest thing will be to ask the employer to pay you by cheque and do the deductions yourself. There is no way I would allow a mandatory pension deduction from my wages. I have always paid one- but it is a choice, and if needed I could stop contributing for a few months or change the amount. Mandatory funnelling of funds to banks and investors again. Do NOT make me laugh.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,034
If I don't stop reading this web site I may not make pension age.

Anyway, if adding another deduction nonsense starts the simplest thing will be to ask the employer to pay you by cheque and do the deductions yourself. There is no way I would allow a mandatory pension deduction from my wages. I have always paid one- but it is a choice, and if needed I could stop contributing for a few months or change the amount. Mandatory funnelling of funds to banks and investors again. Do NOT make me laugh.
That is the problem. In the current climate people will be dead against mandatory pensions deductions going to private financial institutions.
 

paulp

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
7,324
why not go with some sort of carrot and stick approach

make a 5% contribution mandatory
move retirement age to 75
if you want, you can retire at 68 or 70 subject to increasing 5% contribution to 10-15%
 
Top