Business as usual: Government approves 20 year strategy for Irish

LiamORaiste

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It'll come as a relief, in these days dominated by the bailout and the icy weather, that the Government took time today at its cabinet meeting to approve a twenty year strategy to revive the Irish language. Given that the Government should be counting its time in days - not years - as ministers eye a golden handshake and handsome pension (Dermot Ahern gets €125,000 in a lumpsum and €128,000 as an annual pension - crisis? what crisis?) - approving a twenty year strategy may sound a little ambitious.
Let's be positive. Isn't it great that the Government is, like Barack Obama, able to do more than one thing at the same time - in this case revive the economy and kill the Irish language (or vice versa).
 


thereisnogodnorallah

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If Fine Gael get into power it might not have the same impetus. They are not as positively disposed towards the Teanga Naisiunta as FF. I understand it is their policy to make Irish optional for the leaving cert. If the NUI is disbanded into separate universities it is likely that some or all of them will remove the need for Irish as a mandatory subject and it will be treated as a language other than English as in the other colleges. Combined this will cause many students outside gaelcolaistes to just give it up and lower further the number of people interested in using it everyday.
 

Cael

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If Fine Gael get into power it might not have the same impetus. They are not as positively disposed towards the Teanga Naisiunta as FF. I understand it is their policy to make Irish optional for the leaving cert. If the NUI is disbanded into separate universities it is likely that some or all of them will remove the need for Irish as a mandatory subject and it will be treated as a language other than English as in the other colleges. Combined this will cause many students outside gaelcolaistes to just give it up and lower further the number of people interested in using it everyday.
Yes, the blueshirts have no feeling for the Irish language - except as a kind of lifestyle choice.
 

Cael

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We're just living in the real world, Cael.
The blueshirt world is anything but real. The best you can now hope for is to replace maFFia as the IMF's native lackies.
 

JandK

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The blueshirt world is anything but real. The best you can now hope for is to replace maFFia as the IMF's native lackies.
Well, I agree FG will have to make the best of the situation it will inherit.

But let's get back to the topic at hand. I've seen, on other threads, your dedication to the revival of the Irish language. There is nothing wrong with it. I simply disagree with you about what is needed for the language to be sustained. Making Irish an option for the Leaving Cert would enable those who are really interested in the language, and have a real flair for it, to enjoy two years studying from a curriculum which doesn't need to spend time going over old basics for students who struggle with the language. This would in turn change how Irish is taught, with more time spent on conversational Irish and prose rather than grammar rules and the like.

Making Irish a more attractive subject is necessary for its survival. The current method of teaching the language is outdated and clearly not working.

And for the record, I'm not a Blueshirt, but I do agree with them on this.
 

thereisnogodnorallah

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For a lot of people it is just that - a lifestyle choice and there is no real objection to that. The more the merrier as they say in many gaelscoils. You don't have to be wrapping yourself in the flag to send your kids to a gaelscoil. A lot of my friends send their kids to gaelscoil (i don't as the local national school is great) but not out of any particular love for the language, mostly because they like the idea of their children being fluent in Irish.

As for the strategy, I hope it doesn't involve irritating people so much that they become even more hostile to the language.
 

Cael

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Well, I agree FG will have to make the best of the situation it will inherit.
Nobody has to be a native lacky for foreign imperialists. But, it's as natural as mother's milk to blueshirts.
 

JandK

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Nobody has to be a native lacky for foreign imperialists. But, it's as natural as mother's milk to blueshirts.
I find it fascinating, Cael, how you ignore what I had to say in favour of an attack unrelated to the thread. It tells me all I need to know about your ability to debate a topic.
 

Cael

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But let's get back to the topic at hand. I've seen, on other threads, your dedication to the revival of the Irish language. There is nothing wrong with it. I simply disagree with you about what is needed for the language to be sustained. Making Irish an option for the Leaving Cert would enable those who are really interested in the language, and have a real flair for it, to enjoy two years studying from a curriculum which doesn't need to spend time going over old basics for students who struggle with the language. This would in turn change how Irish is taught, with more time spent on conversational Irish and prose rather than grammar rules and the like.

Making Irish a more attractive subject is necessary for its survival. The current method of teaching the language is outdated and clearly not working.

And for the record, I'm not a Blueshirt, but I do agree with them on this.
This argument has been trashed out ad nauseum on other threads, so we probably dont need to do it again here. I will just say that there are a lot of people who will be very tempted to keep voting for FF because of FG's lack of patriotism and willingness to weaken the position of our National Language.
 

JandK

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How is my argument in any way unpatriotic? Blind adherence to the tenets of a nation - language, for example, does not automatically mean patriotism.

I'm not advocating the destruction of the language, I'm advocating a reform to how it is taught. In my view, it would benefit the language. Is this not patriotic?
 

Mushroom

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I find it fascinating, Cael, how you ignore what I had to say in favour of an attack unrelated to the thread. It tells me all I need to know about your ability to debate a topic.

If you were sitting on a park bench and Cael shuffled up and sat down beside you and started raving, you'd immediately stand up and walk away.

In cyberspace this can be accomplished very simply by adding him to your 'ignore' list. I strongly recommend it as it will enhance the quality of the time that you spend on p.ie.
 

THR

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It is not impossible to revive a language once its last speaker has died but it is very difficult; A bit like cutting off your finger and trying to put it back.
 

LiamORaiste

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I used to be a vehement opponent of the proposal to end the necessity of Irish in the Leaving Cert. Now I'm not so sure. First of all I don't like this almost pathological attachment to 'sacred cows' we irish speakers seem to have - and it's not as if the system has worked up to now particularly well with 98.5% of the staff of the Department of Education admitting in a recent survey that they are unable to do business with the public in Irish. The argument seems to be along the lines of we must hold on to compulsory Irish as it is the last bulwark between the language and its speaking community and extinction. Perhaps we need to look at a new way. Like Seán Ó Riordáin said in his poem Daoirse (the opposite of Liberty), níl laistigh d'aon daoire ach saoirse ón daoirse sin. If you submit to a particular denial of freedom then you become free of that denial.
If, instead of compulsory Irish, there were double CAO points for Irish, English and Maths, would it not make it effectively compulsory but give people the option. I don't like using the points system like this - the education system should be about more than points to get to the next level - but it is sufficient unto the day.
I don't see any such proposal in the "20 Year Strategy" - which despite its importance and its news value as an antidote to the current gloom is getting gloomier mood isn't mentioned in any of the national media websites this am, Irish Times, Indo, RTE - to improve the teaching of Irish at second level. There is a proposal, apparently, to employ 'cúntóirí teanga/language assistants' in all Irish schools - but at a time that special needs assistants are being laid off, it seems that this is unlikely to happen in the short to medium term.
My suspicion is that Fianna Fáíl are up to their old tricks regarding the Irish language. They profess they are its champions. Before the last election they unveiled a 'Statement on the Government's Attitude to Irish' and it got the Irish speakers on board for the election, despite it being little more than a collection of pious platitudes. Now they issue a Strategy which, like their four year plan, they will not be around to implement. But it might just fool enough Irish speakers into giving them a vote - and as Cael demonstrates so ably, there are people there who are willing to be fooled again (like the 20% in Donegal South West who voted FF and the 40% who voted SF(=FF lite)).
I don't see how the Strategy as its laid out can be implemented and resourced at this time or for some time. Will it merely slip down the political priority list of the new Government as it has not even dimpled the current news agenda? I don't see the public buying the morphing of Udarás na Gaeltachta into the 26 county agency to promote Irish and develop the Gaeltacht while we already have 'Foras na Gaeilge', supposedly an all Ireland agency for the promotion of Irish which, as a creature of the Good Friday Agreement, can't be touched. That Foras is spectacularly incompetent has ensured its survival to date, it seems. What would the Civil Service do if the Foras was actually effective?
 

DuineEile

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Calling SF "FF lite" is a new one. And a new low.
There really is no honour or fairness in this political game. It seems to be the same for all sides, my own preferred party included. No wonder people are cynical.


D
 

macs magic

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It'll come as a relief, in these days dominated by the bailout and the icy weather, that the Government took time today at its cabinet meeting to approve a twenty year strategy to revive the Irish language. Given that the Government should be counting its time in days - not years - as ministers eye a golden handshake and handsome pension (Dermot Ahern gets €125,000 in a lumpsum and €128,000 as an annual pension - crisis? what crisis?) - approving a twenty year strategy may sound a little ambitious.
Let's be positive. Isn't it great that the Government is, like Barack Obama, able to do more than one thing at the same time - in this case revive the economy and kill the Irish language (or vice versa).
what a stupid thread.if you think the irish lanuage is so pointless,why is there a waiting list to get into most irish speaking schools?theres alot more going on in the country apart from the banks and imf you know
 

Insole

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This argument has been trashed out ad nauseum on other threads, so we probably dont need to do it again here. I will just say that there are a lot of people who will be very tempted to keep voting for FF because of FG's lack of patriotism and willingness to weaken the position of our National Language.
Whatttttt???????????

Fianna fail are the worst traitors ever to inhabit this country since the act of union.

Jesus Wept!

Is there an ounce of patriotism in FF? They were even formed by a man who spent the war in the US.
 

LiamORaiste

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I am a supporter of Irish medium schools for a long, long time. I just find it ironic that the Government approves a plan re the Irish language they are not in a position to implement. Perhap's that's the point....
 

TODevastated

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It'll come as a relief, in these days dominated by the bailout and the icy weather, that the Government took time today at its cabinet meeting to approve a twenty year strategy to revive the Irish language. Given that the Government should be counting its time in days - not years - as ministers eye a golden handshake and handsome pension (Dermot Ahern gets €125,000 in a lumpsum and €128,000 as an annual pension - crisis? what crisis?) - approving a twenty year strategy may sound a little ambitious.
Let's be positive. Isn't it great that the Government is, like Barack Obama, able to do more than one thing at the same time - in this case revive the economy and kill the Irish language (or vice versa).
a complete waste of time and effort (money should be put into chinese language)
 


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