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Business Insider: "The New Spanish Debt Stats Will Give You Chills"


Dublin 4

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Feb 6, 2011
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The public debt exceeded €882 billion at the end of 2012
Debt Grew by €146 Billion in one year
The increase in the first year of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy is the largest ever recorded
Debt-to-GDP is highest since 1910
Interest expense is at record high



Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Spanish Debt Grows by €146 Billion, Largest Ever Recorded; Debt-to-GDP Highest Since 1910

Has the crisis already given Radgo 1 haymaker too many??? :shock2:



Edit: Spain has proven to be a persistent problem for the Eurozone & pushed it to the edge.

Although the Bond Yields are down & auctions are going well - there is this underlying Debt Time Bomb.

Do posters think that Draghqueen & Co can defuse it or is the crisis too far ahead & diverse?

Auctions are goin well all the same... :shock:

Spain's borrowing costs sink to a 10-month low Thursday, while the euro rallies against the dollar, after a robust Spanish bond auction; while moves in European equity markets were more muted as investors awaited the European Central Bank's rate announcement.


Spanish Bonds Rally, Euro Spikes After Bond Auction; ECB Eyed - WSJ.com
 
Last edited:


The Field Marshal

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List of countries by external debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


PRIVATE AND PUBLIC DEBT

Spanish Debt in dollars
2,570,000,000,000

population 47,042,984 (July 2011 est.)

Debt per head of population 54,630

[40972 euro]


Irish debt in dollars
2,352,000,000,000

Population. 4,722,028

Debt per head of population 498,091

[373,568 Euros]

Each Irish individual is carrying 9 times more debt than each Spanish individual
 

Taxi Driver

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List of countries by external debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


PRIVATE AND PUBLIC DEBT

Spanish Debt in dollars
2,570,000,000,000

population 47,042,984 (July 2011 est.)

Debt per head of population 54,630

[40972 euro]


Irish debt in dollars
2,352,000,000,000

Population. 4,722,028

Debt per head of population 498,091

[373,568 Euros]

Each Irish individual is carrying 9 times more debt than each Spanish individual
These stats again? Why don't you put up external assets so we can see the net external debt position?
 

Pep4321

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Apr 20, 2012
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482
List of countries by external debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


PRIVATE AND PUBLIC DEBT

Spanish Debt in dollars
2,570,000,000,000

population 47,042,984 (July 2011 est.)

Debt per head of population 54,630

[40972 euro]


Irish debt in dollars
2,352,000,000,000

Population. 4,722,028

Debt per head of population 498,091

[373,568 Euros]

Each Irish individual is carrying 9 times more debt than each Spanish individual
How do you make that out?

2,352,000,000,000 is 2.3 trillion, the Irish debt is not 2.3 trillion?

235 billion you mean maby?

which is 235,000,000,000
 

The Field Marshal

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These stats again? Why don't you put up external assets so we can see the net external debt position?
Delighted

List of sovereign states by external assets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spain external Assets 1777 billion


Assets per head of population 37773

Debts per head of pop 40972
----------------------------------------
Gross liability per head 3,199



Ireland External assets 294 billion


Assets per head of pop 61,837

liability per head 373,568

---------------------------------------
Gross liability per head 311,731


Gross Irish liability 97 times higher than Spain.




Therefore not only is every body in Ireland 9 times greater in debt but taken with Irelands external assets everybody in Ireland has gross liabilities 97 times greater than everybody in Spain.
 

The Field Marshal

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How do you make that out?

2,352,000,000,000 is 2.3 trillion, the Irish debt is not 2.3 trillion?

235 billion you mean maby?
The debts I refer to are combined public and private debts.

This is a list of countries by external debt, the total public and private debt (i.e. gross general government debt including both intragovernmental and sub-national public entities debts) owed to nonresidents repayable in internationally accepted currencies, goods, or services,[1] where the public debt is the money or credit owed by any level of government, from central to local, and the private debt the money or credit owed by private households or private corporations based in the country under consideration. This is not to be confused with actual government debts
 

crossman

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The debts I refer to are combined public and private debts.

This is a list of countries by external debt, the total public and private debt (i.e. gross general government debt including both intragovernmental and sub-national public entities debts) owed to nonresidents repayable in internationally accepted currencies, goods, or services,[1] where the public debt is the money or credit owed by any level of government, from central to local, and the private debt the money or credit owed by private households or private corporations based in the country under consideration. This is not to be confused with actual government debts


And these private debts include the enormous liabilities of entities in the IFSC that are matched by similar assets making the overall data meaningless except to those who want to talk up a story.
 

The Field Marshal

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And these private debts include the enormous liabilities of entities in the IFSC that are matched by similar assets making the overall data meaningless except to those who want to talk up a story.
Who is talking up what?

What assetts in the IFSC list them out please?

Spains position is bad enough but Irelands looks deeply insolvent at every level.


Would you like to have a look at Italy?
 

He3

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The penny is still dropping in Spain. The sequence for an Irish observer is disturbingly familiar.
 

Analyzer

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Delighted

List of sovereign states by external assets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spain external Assets 1777 billion


Assets per head of population 37773

Debts per head of pop 40972
----------------------------------------
Gross liability per head 3,199



Ireland External assets 294 billion


Assets per head of pop 61,837

liability per head 373,568

---------------------------------------
Gross liability per head 311,731


Gross Irish liability 97 times higher than Spain.




Therefore not only is every body in Ireland 9 times greater in debt but taken with Irelands external assets everybody in Ireland has gross liabilities 97 times greater than everybody in Spain.
Obviously you were not listening when Baldy Noonan announced that he would shove it all into NeverNeverland :p
 

Sync

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List of countries by external debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


PRIVATE AND PUBLIC DEBT

Spanish Debt in dollars
2,570,000,000,000

population 47,042,984 (July 2011 est.)

Debt per head of population 54,630

[40972 euro]


Irish debt in dollars
2,352,000,000,000

Population. 4,722,028

Debt per head of population 498,091

[373,568 Euros]

Each Irish individual is carrying 9 times more debt than each Spanish individual
You need to include the assets as well or it's meaningless. I have more debt than a homeless person. I also have more assets, and the ability to service my debt.

Spain are screwed. There was a thread here last week about how they're trying to get out of deals over energy subsidies, they're beginning to act like a drowning company now, refusing new stock (Here investment) because they can't manage what they have.

One of the major problems they have (never pointed to by the cabbages that scream about Ireland having independently governed cantons like Switzerland) is that their local governments borrowed big based on income from stamp duty, taxes etc and had huge infrastructure investments and improved healthcare go south when the crash came. Valencia looks utterly beautiful, they rebuilt half the city, but they're 3.5 billion in debt on a local level.
 

Fractional Reserve

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FM it doesn't matter by this time next year the French will have blown everything to bits.
Who is talking up what?

What assetts in the IFSC list them out please?

Spains position is bad enough but Irelands looks deeply insolvent at every level.


Would you like to have a look at Italy?
 

The Field Marshal

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You need to include the assets as well or it's meaningless. I have more debt than a homeless person. I also have more assets, and the ability to service my debt.

Spain are screwed. There was a thread here last week about how they're trying to get out of deals over energy subsidies, they're beginning to act like a drowning company now, refusing new stock (Here investment) because they can't manage what they have.

One of the major problems they have (never pointed to by the cabbages that scream about Ireland having independently governed cantons like Switzerland) is that their local governments borrowed big based on income from stamp duty, taxes etc and had huge infrastructure investments and improved healthcare go south when the crash came. Valencia looks utterly beautiful, they rebuilt half the city, but they're 3.5 billion in debt on a local level.
I have included the assets in the following post and the results are staggering

Delighted

List of sovereign states by external assets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spain external Assets 1777 billion


Assets per head of population 37773

Debts per head of pop 40972
----------------------------------------
Gross liability per head 3,199



Ireland External assets 294 billion


Assets per head of pop 61,837

liability per head 373,568

---------------------------------------
Gross liability per head 311,731


Gross Irish liability 97 times higher than Spain.




Therefore not only is every body in Ireland 9 times greater in debt but taken with Irelands external assets everybody in Ireland has gross liabilities 97 times greater than everybody in Spain.

What does this say about Irelands future other than the country is hopelessly insolvent?
 

The Field Marshal

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Messages
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FM it doesn't matter by this time next year the French will have blown everything to bits.
You are probably right.

Its goodbye to the Euro then as I have thought for about a year now.

Sudden death or slow demise of a billion cuts?
 

Taxi Driver

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Messages
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Delighted

List of sovereign states by external assets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spain external Assets 1777 billion

Assets per head of population 37773

Debts per head of pop 40972
----------------------------------------
Gross liability per head 3,199


Ireland External assets 294 billion

Assets per head of pop 61,837

liability per head 373,568

---------------------------------------
Gross liability per head 311,731

Gross Irish liability 97 times higher than Spain.

Therefore not only is every body in Ireland 9 times greater in debt but taken with Irelands external assets everybody in Ireland has gross liabilities 97 times greater than everybody in Spain.
That is comparing apples with something very very different to apples. You have compared total debt of every sector (private, public, financial) of each country to the total assets of just the private sector.

Try this for the proper comparison.

Net international investment position - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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