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CAB investigates "builder bailout" fraud.

yehbut_nobut

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Came across this on propertypin.ie, from a news item on RTE -

The Criminal Assets Bureau has discovered a new form of fraud that has become popular since the recession started, the Oireachtas Finance Committee has been told.


Detective Chief Superintendent John O'Mahony said the CAB calls this the 'builder bailout' fraud.


He said the fraud involves creating a false identity for a person, who then gets a mortgage on one of the builder's properties.


The result is the builder gets paid for a property, which he had been unable to sell and the accomplice gets a percentage of the deal.
He said criminals had also used mortgages as a way of hiding the proceeds of crime.


Criminals would repay a loan with large cash lodgements before selling the property and the price they got appeared to be what he called clean money.
I wonder how widespread this is, and who's been involved. Still not clear to me exactly who ends up being "suckered" in this one...(apart from law abiding public of course!)
 


perprojustice

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Well you have got to admire their cunning.
How they expected to get away with it is another question. It was bound to be twigged if and when the payments stopped.
 

cunningstunt

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Feb 10, 2009
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The bank or building society would get an order for possession 6/9 months later and would then own a property of dubious value. The builder wins and the "mortgage applicant" wins and the public who have guaranteed the banks loses again.
 

Odyessus

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Came across this on propertypin.ie, from a news item on RTE -



I wonder how widespread this is, and who's been involved. Still not clear to me exactly who ends up being "suckered" in this one...(apart from law abiding public of course!)



Can anyone translate this gibberish into English, or are we supposed to guess what the scam is and how it works?


P.S. I refer to the RTE site quoted.
 

stewiegriffin

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Seems straight forward really . Mr X gets a mortage(with no intention of paying it back)
Mr builder pockets the money . The bank takes Mr Xs house back and Mr X gets a few bob for his trouble .

Oh right , just saw your edit*
 

perprojustice

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The bank or building society would get an order for possession 6/9 months later and would then own a property of dubious value. The builder wins and the "mortgage applicant" wins and the public who have guaranteed the banks loses again.
Having reread the rte report it is very clear that what is allegedly happening is that it is a money laundering scam. The mortgage is paid off in a lump sum the criminal then has his clean money from the resale of the house.

I cannot see the first scenario working as the builder is bound to be implicated in it, unless he is using a foreign national who will be far away and uncontactable by the time it is twigged.
 

Odyessus

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Having reread the rte report it is very clear that what is allegedly happening is that it is a money laundering scam. The mortgage is paid off in a lump sum the criminal then has his clean money from the resale of the house.

I cannot see the first scenario working as the builder is bound to be implicated in it, unless he is using a foreign national who will be far away and uncontactable by the time it is twigged.


If it was very clear, we wouldn't be debating what it means.
 

Arabella

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Mar 6, 2009
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its pretty ingenious alright - particulary if the idenity fraud is done well enough in the first place then it would be very hard to prove anything.

although am i wrong in thinking that this has been a used method of money laundrying for some time...i'll go see if i can find a link...maybe i'm imagining it...?
 

candi

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Dec 13, 2008
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its pretty ingenious alright - particulary if the idenity fraud is done well enough in the first place then it would be very hard to prove anything.

although am i wrong in thinking that this has been a used method of money laundrying for some time...i'll go see if i can find a link...maybe i'm imagining it...?
You can be sure that in these recessionary times all the old schemes and scams will be reintroduced with a bit of tweaking to overcome modern technology
 

Digout

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One wonders if the banks were involved in this? Seeing as over the last 18 months mortgages were not growing on trees and most banks would want to see a banking history of a client before giving a mortgage....
 

MsAnneThrope

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*bump*

Another successful 'investigation' then?

Remember the gazumping scandals during the mid-2000s, where confidential information regarding potential house-buyers, and how much their mortgage was approved for, was passed around like confetti at a wedding? Guess we can add this 'investigation' to that one?

White-collar criminals must be quaking in their boots in Ireland, as they consider the risks of getting caught in whatever new scam they're dreaming up today.
 

Anorakphobia

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Apr 13, 2007
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*bump*

Another successful 'investigation' then?

Remember the gazumping scandals during the mid-2000s, where confidential information regarding potential house-buyers, and how much their mortgage was approved for, was passed around like confetti at a wedding? Guess we can add this 'investigation' to that one?

White-collar criminals must be quaking in their boots in Ireland, as they consider the risks of getting caught in whatever new scam they're dreaming up today.
Yeh, real savaged by a dead sheep stuff.
I'd say they are quaking into their cocktails in golf clubs in Portugal, Spain and Florida as we speak.
 

Happy1976

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Jan 25, 2011
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So the person with the new identity then has to forge utility bills and bank statements to get the loan passed with our eagle eyed banks.

Loan offer issues to Solicitor who misses the identity fraud even with adherence to Money Laundering Regulations and draws down loan cheque.

Eagle eyed Solicitor then presents Deeds to Revenue Commissioners for stamping.

Eagle eyed Revenue Commissioner has issued a valid PPS number for the individual who doesn't exist and stamps the deeds.

Eagle Eyed Solicitor then registers deeds and mortgage for a person who doesn't exist.

Mortgage is defaulted upon by GENIUS criminal and the bank have no desire to seek reposession as property worth less than mortgage so in their wisdom opt to sue on foot of loan offer for a money debt against a person who doesn't exist. The rationale being that the money debt can be registered against multiple properties.

I can see why the criminal would lose sleep over this one.
Further evidence of legislature having done the job but the execution of regulation simply doesn't exist.
 

mayotom

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Jan 11, 2011
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466
well with Irelands P**s poor judicial system, if they get caught they will just get a slap on the wrist( pay a €300 fine by 2015 or for the more serious 2 month suspended sentence).

somebody made the point on another thread yesterday that the only way to get away from this system is to emigrate.
 


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