Cameron rejects the idea of Self Determination for Ireland

Garza

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Antrim the use of the term 'Northern Irish' isn't any sign of the 2 communities 'coming together', its just a cop-out whenever people are asked are they Irish or British in polls, because its such a tabboo subject that people want to avoid.

The reality is theres no such thing as 'Northern Irish', it doesn't exist. There is no common 'Northern Irish' culture or identity. You're either Irish or you're British, its as simple as that.
Many peoples of different cultures have come together to form an idenity.

America, Switzerland, Belgium, Germany, Spain etc. The number calling themselves Northern Irish is growing.
 


physicist

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Where in the GFA is a UK politician banned from saying he believes in the UK ?
Is it beside where Politicians in the ROI are banned from talking about a United Ireland ?
He can say whatever he wants, by his own self-determination, he clearly believes in a 4 region monarchist state with an unelected upper house, that doesn't mean it could undermind the wishes of any of these regions for constitutional change, nor for British removal of the monarch etc. if the majority of people in the relative region disagree with him.

I don't think anything he says has though.
 

SevenStars

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Antrim the use of the term 'Northern Irish' isn't any sign of the 2 communities 'coming together', its just a cop-out whenever people are asked are they Irish or British in polls, because its such a tabboo subject that people want to avoid.

The reality is theres no such thing as 'Northern Irish', it doesn't exist. There is no common 'Northern Irish' culture or identity. You're either Irish or you're British, its as simple as that.
Its very, very debatable that "Britishness" exists outside of 19 th century music hall Jingoism...I personally dont believe it exists. We are talking about Irish people who to differing degrees are piosoned by the cultural sickness of Orange fascism.
 

Ifor Bach

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Antrim the use of the term 'Northern Irish' isn't any sign of the 2 communities 'coming together', its just a cop-out whenever people are asked are they Irish or British in polls, because its such a tabboo subject that people want to avoid.

The reality is theres no such thing as 'Northern Irish', it doesn't exist. There is no common 'Northern Irish' culture or identity. You're either Irish or you're British, its as simple as that.
That's merely opinion masquerading as fact.
 
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dublincitizen

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Many peoples of different cultures have come together to form an idenity.

America, Switzerland, Belgium, Germany, Spain etc. The number calling themselves Northern Irish is growing.
lol In America you had the civil war, then the gangland wars between Catholics and Protestants, then the denial of civil rights and liberties for African-Americans. In Belgium you have exactly the same situation as in the North of Ireland, except the situation in the North is much more stable, Belgium on the other hand can't form a government and is on the verge of splitting. Spain is similar to the UK with it's provinces wanting more and more autonomy, with 2 regions in particular with large independence movements which will more than likely eventually succeed. As for Germany, they were always German, just because the Soviets created a border didn't change that, so reunification was inevitable once the Berlin Wall came down.

So there won't be any 'coming together' of identities in the North. Theres an Irish identity and a British identity, and thats it.
 

Ifor Bach

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Show me something other than a poll to show this alleged increase in the 'Northern Irish' identity as fact.
A lot of posts on this board would indicate such a rift between Northern and Southern nationalist identities.

The fact that you don't like something, and have therefore proclaimed it does not exist, does not, in itself, make you the arbiter of 'the truth'.
 

dublincitizen

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A lot of posts on this board would indicate such a rift between Northern and Southern nationalist identities.
Can you show some examples because I really don't know what you mean here?

The fact that you don't like something, and have therefore proclaimed it does not exist, does not, in itself, make you the arbiter of 'the truth'.
Disagreeing with me doesn't mean it does exist either.

(in your opinion).
Again show me evidence to prove otherwise.
 

Jakey

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Excellent comments from Cameron. And I liked Paterson's recent comments about the insidious dangers of nationalist revisionism. The Tories seem to have the balance right - safeguarding the rights of all the people of the United Kingdom, and showing due respect for Irish Catholic culture, but not for one moment rowing back on their historic commitment to the Union, nor being forced into some absurd and asymmetrical position of "neutrality" whilst the Republic busily agitates for a united Ireland.
 

pete2

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..Cultural catholics but pro-UK.
Armed republicanism needs to face up to this fact of life or articulate something a lot less fuzzy on the issue of how ethnic Irish in the north will have their bellys made full in a UI. Sure doesn't the brit govt. employ the majority of them as civil servants? So long as britain is paying them hush money, they will not stray.
 

Schomberg

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What we need to complete the process is a flag and an anthem that unites us.
As much as I'd hate to see that Ulster Banner go, I think this is a very sensible idea that'd really set Northern Ireland on the road to becoming a truly separate entity on this island. Danny Boy seems to have cross community support, a new flag all could get behind might be a good idea.
 

dublincitizen

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Excellent comments from Cameron. And I liked Paterson's recent comments about the insidious dangers of nationalist revisionism.
Care to share those comments with the rest of us? Because what I heard Paterson say was nothing like that...

The Tories seem to have the balance right - safeguarding the rights of all the people of the United Kingdom, and showing due respect for Irish Catholic culture, but not for one moment rowing back on their historic commitment to the Union, nor being forced into some absurd and asymmetrical position of "neutrality" whilst the Republic busily agitates for a united Ireland.
The tories have shown nothing but contempt for the Nationalist community, by secretly plotting against them with the Unionists prior to the election, and now after the election by showing absolutely no respect for the wish of the Nationalist community to not join mainstream UK politics and instead engage in the process of achieving Irish Unity.
 

dublincitizen

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Would our green chums be squealing if Cameron had said he was in favour of a United Ireland ?
I'd prefer he remain neutral on the issue and leave Northern politics to the Northern parties, as Labour did.

Nonsense.

Whether they care to admit it someone from the Shankill has more in common with someone from the Falls than either of them would have with a Dub or Cockney.

Now we're not killing each other we can start to express it more.
Of course people in Belfast have more in common with each other, just as people in Dublin have more in common with each other than they do with people in Cork or Limerick. Whats your point? Billy from the Falls is still Irish while Allistair from the Shankill is still British.
 

Antrim

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Antrim the use of the term 'Northern Irish' isn't any sign of the 2 communities 'coming together', its just a cop-out whenever people are asked are they Irish or British in polls, because its such a tabboo subject that people want to avoid.

The reality is theres no such thing as 'Northern Irish', it doesn't exist. There is no common 'Northern Irish' culture or identity. You're either Irish or you're British, its as simple as that.
The Northern Irish are an emerging culture. In the Past Unionists supported an English Football team and Nationalist supported an Irish Football team. Now increasingly we support the Northern Irish team first and foremost. (Unionists also supported NI FC in the past but it was England first, now we see them as a different side). The success of Ulster Rugby is doing a lot to bring us together, I see as many Ulster Flags as I do Ulster banners, you also see a lot of St Patrick flag and South African flags. G-Mac and Rory make us proud as a united people. The Belfast Giants also bring us together, sport is doing a lot of good. Bands like Snow patrol enforce Northern Irish further. We use the same school syllabus, cross community playgroups and schools are becoming more common. Both sides are frustrated at having no choice in government because of tribal politics, when the people get a third choice the DUP and SF are finished. We’re working together and playing together. We both want peace first. We’re the best of both cultures.

What defines British Culture and Irish Culture?

Oh and teenagers from the Shankill and the Falls both grow those ridicules moustaches, I’ve never seen those anywhere else. :D
 

Antrim

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As much as I'd hate to see that Ulster Banner go, I think this is a very sensible idea that'd really set Northern Ireland on the road to becoming a truly separate entity on this island. Danny Boy seems to have cross community support, a new flag all could get behind might be a good idea.
It has to be Danny boy all the way. Keep the Ulster Banner but drop the crown. I think this would keep most people happy in a world where nobody is going to be completely ecstatic.
 

eoghanacht

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Balderdash

Are you really saying if Cowen says he is working for a United Ireland that he is strengthening loyalist paramilitaries ?
If he made a statement which suggested he was prepared to go outside of any agreed peace deal to secure a UI, do you think they wouldn't be getting tooled up on the shankill?

Your not that naive.

Briege, ask BC if he has any of those UVF pics he could post up for Cruimh, you know the ones you were fond of throwing into a discussion.
 


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