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Can demographics deliver a United Ireland?


woolfie

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
14
I was just reading a few posts on Slugger, what strange views some have. Unionists saying in one post that the union is secure and a united Ireland is further away than ever. Then a couple of posts later, with no sense of irony at all, they discuss re-partition to keep N.I. alive in some form.
The green tide of electoral votes is rising and unionism's usual S.O.P of digging trenches will be totally useless against it.
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,602
If unification is to happen, SF may want to play the post-Brexit game. I.e hope that a Brexit does happen so the resulting pain (and it will be painful) will convince a majority into voting for unity to rejoin the EU, as David Davis confirmed is possible today.
 

firefly123

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Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,160
On reflection ...........................if ROI left the EU and a federal system of government for GB and Ireland existed with London only holding the responsibility for national defence ,as much power as possible on key issues that matter to people pushed down to a local level (say local council) -would ROI citizens be interested in that type of relationship .
Or has being your own country now so ingrained that a different style of government/relationships between close neighbours is impossible.
On the surface I see little difference between most of the parties in both jurisdictions , a cycle of centre right /centre left etc etc mixed up with good old parochialism.
When you actually discuss with people from Birmingham /Sligo/Antrim - most all agree on what they want from life and respect each other .
Ian Paisley's friend and mentor the great Dessie Boal suggested this federal solution in the early 70's and he was ahead of his time on many matters as well as being fine legal brain .
Im not very clear what the benefit would be here? We give up and join with the UK because we are similar? We become a region of the UK like Scotland? See how that is working out for them?
 

runwiththewind

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Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
12,701
On reflection ...........................if ROI left the EU and a federal system of government for GB and Ireland existed with London only holding the responsibility for national defence ,as much power as possible on key issues that matter to people pushed down to a local level (say local council) -would ROI citizens be interested in that type of relationship .
Or has being your own country now so ingrained that a different style of government/relationships between close neighbours is impossible.
On the surface I see little difference between most of the parties in both jurisdictions , a cycle of centre right /centre left etc etc mixed up with good old parochialism.
When you actually discuss with people from Birmingham /Sligo/Antrim - most all agree on what they want from life and respect each other .
Ian Paisley's friend and mentor the great Dessie Boal suggested this federal solution in the early 70's and he was ahead of his time on many matters as well as being fine legal brain .
There's absolutely nothing in that for the ROI. You're forgetting the ingrained sectarianism in the prohibition of Catholics from being PM and Head of state.

Monarchy is an abhorance to a people brought up in a republic,
 

runwiththewind

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Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
12,701
If we are not careful there will a new invasion from the British mainland.................................... ( The Die-Hard remainers ) David Davis may have unleashed the Remainers on Ireland.........
Perfect reason to get rid of the CTA and the automatic citizenship entitlements to first generation Irish.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,093
Theres just tons of panicking on here from the Unionists.

Unless they live in some very small little backstreet in Belfast, where their whole world revolves around "Did ye see a Taig? Were they anywhere near here?", they would know perfectly well that NI agriculture is going to be absolutely side-swiped by BREXIT.

The Six is not all back to back terraced housing and "Murials" depicting fallen heroes.

There is a lot to it these eejits never talk about.

Of course BREXIT is a nightmare. Anyone who thinks that the UK govt is going to magnificently keep our cross-border trade going - because they can do that with a wave of a wand - and match the EU subsidies which allowed us to participate in it is as dumb as rocks.

As for repartition - sheesh. You really think we are going to have a border at Ballymena?

Sad old seventies farts.
 

Leinsterview

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
740
A thought-provoking article. What's striking here is that it is not written by some wishfully thinking nationalist propagandist but the deputy editor of the staunchly unionist Newsletter. His comments about the percipient Jack Parsons carry particularly interesting and evocative echoes of another farseeing thinker whose predictions are particularly resonant in view of recent events and who has, in this regard, been getting nowhere near enough recognition or attention: one Tim Pat Coogan. He was saying for decades that this would happen and was derided by the usual suspects (RDE and co) as a false prophet/buffoon -- 'Tim Pat 'Count the Catholics' Coogan etc. He is now entitled to permit himself a wry chortle.
 

politirak

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2012
Messages
507
A thought-provoking article. What's striking here is that it is not written by some wishfully thinking nationalist propagandist but the deputy editor of the staunchly unionist Newsletter. His comments about the percipient Jack Parsons carry particularly interesting and evocative echoes of another farseeing thinker whose predictions are particularly resonant in view of recent events and who has, in this regard, been getting nowhere near enough recognition or attention: one Tim Pat Coogan. He was saying for decades that this would happen and was derided by the usual suspects (RDE and co) as a false prophet/buffoon -- 'Tim Pat 'Count the Catholics' Coogan etc. He is now entitled to permit himself a wry chortle.

The most recent Ass election has delivered quite a shock to political Unionism. Whilst the narrative has been pushed for years that watching demographic shifts is nothing more than a sectarian headcount, the truth is that population change has, and always has had a significant affect on the Political geography of every region on earth. Peter Robinson himself only a couple of years agow said this - we can no longer ignore the demographic realities, to do so would be constitutionally dangerous, we have to stop looking for Lundies and start looking for converts. His words should have been heeded carefully by those stubborn Unionists around him. There has been no attempt to find converts, in fact the recent elections up North show beyond a doubt that Unionism as political Monolith is well past its hayday and non Unionists are far from willing to hop on board.
The current demographic stats show that the traditional nationalist background community of voting age is at 42%, remarkably close to the election result. That cohort will hit 45% (level with Unionism) by 2021. The endgame in Ulster is well advanced.
 

Man or Mouse

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Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
7,110
The most recent Ass election has delivered quite a shock to political Unionism. Whilst the narrative has been pushed for years that watching demographic shifts is nothing more than a sectarian headcount, the truth is that population change has, and always has had a significant affect on the Political geography of every region on earth. Peter Robinson himself only a couple of years agow said this - we can no longer ignore the demographic realities, to do so would be constitutionally dangerous, we have to stop looking for Lundies and start looking for converts. His words should have been heeded carefully by those stubborn Unionists around him. There has been no attempt to find converts, in fact the recent elections up North show beyond a doubt that Unionism as political Monolith is well past its hayday and non Unionists are far from willing to hop on board.
The current demographic stats show that the traditional nationalist background community of voting age is at 42%, remarkably close to the election result. That cohort will hit 45% (level with Unionism) by 2021. The endgame in Ulster is well advanced.
I think your conclusion is wishful thinking. 1912 anybody?

That shower aren't the same as the English, who respect the wish of the majority even when it is not a very good idea the majority just voted for. They will never integrate, whatever outcome that brings.
 

politirak

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2012
Messages
507
I think your conclusion is wishful thinking. 1912 anybody?

That shower aren't the same as the English, who respect the wish of the majority even when it is not a very good idea the majority just voted for. They will never integrate, whatever outcome that brings.
Who is/are 'that shower' and what do you mean exactly. Expand le do thoil?
 

londonpride

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
662
Judging by the attitude of most Ulstermen here in London, it is easy to imagine the six counties forming an alliance with Scotland rather than with the Republic. This is something republicans should be aware of.
 

Ardillaun

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Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
11,305
I like to teach the world to sing and live in perfect harmony ,get real .
Let me put it another way then: if you lads don't shape up and learn to get on with each other, there'll be no UI. This decision will not rest North of the border alone.
 

HYENA

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Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
3,008
Republicanism is a challenge to established groups, it wins by getting people to agree to fairness not to long established instincts and prejudices. We do not wait for the last bigot of any shade to realise their blindness.
 

Roll_On

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Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
17,905
The DUP have claimed for a long time that they have 'many Catholic voters'. I just don't see how exactly, the sectarianism of the DUP has only had a thin veil put over it the past decade, and it's a pretty thin veil.
 

Roll_On

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Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
17,905
On reflection ...........................if ROI left the EU and a federal system of government for GB and Ireland existed with London only holding the responsibility for national defence ,as much power as possible on key issues that matter to people pushed down to a local level (say local council) -would ROI citizens be interested in that type of relationship .
Or has being your own country now so ingrained that a different style of government/relationships between close neighbours is impossible.
On the surface I see little difference between most of the parties in both jurisdictions , a cycle of centre right /centre left etc etc mixed up with good old parochialism.
When you actually discuss with people from Birmingham /Sligo/Antrim - most all agree on what they want from life and respect each other .
you could discuss the same with people from Copenhagen and Dresden and Leitrim, yet we're not going to vote for a tri-dutchy political union on that basis, because they are different countries, landmasses and cultures and there is no advantage for either party in such an arrangement other than placating some deranged cobwebby Prussian loons.
 

Strawberry

Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
16,304
On reflection ...........................if ROI left the EU and a federal system of government for GB and Ireland existed with London only holding the responsibility for national defence ,as much power as possible on key issues that matter to people pushed down to a local level (say local council) -would ROI citizens be interested in that type of relationship .
Or has being your own country now so ingrained that a different style of government/relationships between close neighbours is impossible.
On the surface I see little difference between most of the parties in both jurisdictions , a cycle of centre right /centre left etc etc mixed up with good old parochialism.
When you actually discuss with people from Birmingham /Sligo/Antrim - most all agree on what they want from life and respect each other .
Ian Paisley's friend and mentor the great Dessie Boal suggested this federal solution in the early 70's and he was ahead of his time on many matters as well as being fine legal brain .
You clearly know nothing about Irish people, despite having spent your life on the same island as us. Defense is the very last thing we'd allow London to have control over. Sign up to a deal that allows London to send Irish soldiers over to Iraq and Afghanistan every time the US needs their lap dog/closest military ally? No thanks.
 

Fr. Hank Tree

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Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
5,907
"It is for this reason that unionism must think hard about image, and – without surrendering key principles – align itself closer to the Britishness that so many people in Northern Ireland want to be part of."

The only kind of "Britishness" northern Ireland Catholics were possibly interested in was the extremely Europhilic, multicultural and cosmopolitan kind which went out the window with Brexit. The net of "Britishness" is being drawn in at the worst possible time for the unionists, i.e. just as their numbers in the ethno-sectarian headcount game they exploited for so long start to dwindle and therefore just as they need to be expanding the definition to entice the people they happily excluded for so long.
 

runwiththewind

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Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
12,701
Judging by the attitude of most Ulstermen here in London, it is easy to imagine the six counties forming an alliance with Scotland rather than with the Republic. This is something republicans should be aware of.
So the Prods align with Scotland (who wouldn't touch them with a barge poll, if it wants to join the EU, (Ireland's veto)) and the Cats join the Rep. In other odds, repartition. Great idea, create enclaves all over NI.
 
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