Can demographics deliver a United Ireland?


Antóin Mac Comháin

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Messages
3,114
The Unionist community isn't there to be "won over". Are you there to be "won over" for the Union? Unionist outreach is a sham, its sole motivation is to show Castle Catholics that Sinn Féin are no longer to be feared.
Am I there to be one over for the Union? No. I believe partition is against the wishes of the majority and deep down I don't think we should have to have another referendum on Independence. However, I'm wise enough to recognize the reality of partition and that British rule still exists in Ireland, which I believe to be the fundamental cause of all of the conflict, regardless of the particulars, so what I really think is that everyone over 18 should have one vote to elect people to a National Assembly. Again, I'm wise enough to understand the reality that a border poll is more than likely going to precede that, and not to do so would be the equivalent of biting my nose off to spite my face. In between, I believe in the fundamental principles of Irish Republicanism as per the non-sectarian politics of Theobald Wolfe Tone, so I actually do value the concept of winning over the hearts and minds of the unionists, and that an Independent United Ireland would be a much better place if it could be achieved that way, as opposed to one which is achieved through a sectarian headcount.
 

AhNowStop

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
7,832
It's a question of nationalism. Irish nationalists aren't there to be won over to the Union and British nationalists (which is what Unionists are) aren't there to be won over to a united Ireland. The Alliance types who are persuadable are a small minority and won't swing it either way. The rest don't care and won't bother voting.
Do you not believe that there are pragmatic "protestant" unionists who would vote in favour of staying in the EU (aka a UI) .... I can tell you for a fact that such previously thought of unicorns most certainly do exist..

and I know lots & lots of former unionist catholics (previously happy enough sort) who are most certainly NOT happy enough now..

and ALL down to the DUP ... well done lads (y)
 

AhNowStop

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
7,832
We shouldn't have to have a referendum in the first place, but it is what it is. I know it's easier said than done, but the DUP don't have 1 million votes nor anything like it. They have 250,000 give or take a few thousand, which amounts to a majority in two regional constituencies. Although the Alliance Party are a Unionist Party, the trickle of votes away from Right Wing Unionism, is an indicator of a change in mindset. As I've said, I know it's easier said than done, but I think the focus should be on winning over the unionists as opposed to trying to out-breed them. That's my two cents on it.
fair point but hard line unionism will not change no matter what .. all thats left is demographics and changing the minds of pragmatic unionism

btw, "demographics" and "democracy" should not be classed as dirty words .. and Im not saying you are classing them so but some like to tee these words up and knock them down now simply because the majority is shifting .....
 

between the bridges

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,522
I know plenty .. and thankfully I know enough to know that you and your lapdog arent representative of the lads I know anyway .. thank feck :rolleyes:
Have to say that moi (the anonymous virtual reality moi and nat the real moi) tis totally crushed by that statement, but tbf in return if moi (the real moi and nat the anonymous virtual reality moi) thought that ye and the rest of jerk circle were representative of the general CNR population, wan would have dug up the judgement day stash and gone full metal jacket postman pat postal by now...
 

2lazy

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
460
Have to say that moi (the anonymous virtual reality moi and nat the real moi) tis totally crushed by that statement, but tbf in return if moi (the real moi and nat the anonymous virtual reality moi) thought that ye and the rest of jerk circle were representative of the general CNR population, wan would have dug up the judgement day stash and gone full metal jacket postman pat postal by now...
You can help Arlene turn the lights out then on yer way out :whistle:
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Messages
3,114
fair point but hard line unionism will not change no matter what .. all thats left is demographics and changing the minds of pragmatic unionism

btw, "demographics" and "democracy" should not be classed as dirty words .. and Im not saying you are classing them so but some like to tee these words up and knock them down now simply because the majority is shifting .....
Although I can't find it now and I'll post it later when I do, I found a recent interview of a former UDR soldier who confirms what you're suggesting, as she said she wouldn't accept a United Ireland even if a majority voted for it within the 6 Counties, but they don't have much option other than to get with the program sooner or later. I look at how people vote to see which way the wind is blowing and I'm not religious in any way, but I get what you're saying and I don't think it automatically makes someone a sectarian bigot to recognize that people from particular groups tend to vote Nationalist or Unionist. We're still going to have to reach out to people like Bridges Post-Majority and Independence. Resistance is futile.
 

between the bridges

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,522
Although I can't find it now and I'll post it later when I do, I found a recent interview of a former UDR soldier who confirms what you're suggesting, as she said she wouldn't accept a United Ireland even if a majority voted for it within the 6 Counties, but they don't have much option other than to get with the program sooner or later. I look at how people vote to see which way the wind is blowing and I'm not religious in any way, but I get what you're saying and I don't think it automatically makes someone a sectarian bigot to recognize that people from particular groups tend to vote Nationalist or Unionist. We're still going to have to reach out to people like Bridges Post-Majority and Independence. Resistance is futile.
The O'Borg project...
4dd62c77aa169c3cf43723f40cdd9c55.jpg
 

AhNowStop

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
7,832
Have to say that moi (the anonymous virtual reality moi and nat the real moi) tis totally crushed by that statement, but tbf in return if moi (the real moi and nat the anonymous virtual reality moi) thought that ye and the rest of jerk circle were representative of the general CNR population, wan would have dug up the judgement day stash and gone full metal jacket postman pat postal by now...
are ye trying te say yer nicer in real life than ye are on here .... well I would feckin hope so :rolleyes:
 

AhNowStop

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
7,832
Although I can't find it now and I'll post it later when I do, I found a recent interview of a former UDR soldier who confirms what you're suggesting, as she said she wouldn't accept a United Ireland even if a majority voted for it within the 6 Counties, but they don't have much option other than to get with the program sooner or later. I look at how people vote to see which way the wind is blowing and I'm not religious in any way, but I get what you're saying and I don't think it automatically makes someone a sectarian bigot to recognize that people from particular groups tend to vote Nationalist or Unionist. We're still going to have to reach out to people like Bridges Post-Majority and Independence. Resistance is futile.
I know the interview you're talking about but I wasnt necessarily talking about nut jobs who are bigging up another gun running 1912 jobby ... It was in relation to voting patterns that I was talking about .. i.e. some unionists (see DUP) would rather live in a septic tank and/or burn the place to the ground than vote for a UI ... Outreach to those kind will NOT work .. so let Brexit and the DUP's idiotic stance do its job on pragmatic unionists (both protestant & catholic btw) and simple demographics will do the rest..

thats democracy in action .. and now all of a sudden we hear certain types decry it .. hilarious :whistle:
 

Talk Back

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
5,337
SF is selling a pup to Nationalist voters by making it seem that a Yes vote is a realistic possibility. If "Yes" to unity gets 45 per cent, it'll be doing well.
Irish people will be the VOTING majority in the occupied 6 counties of Ireland by 2022 - just mere months from now.

Irish people vote for Nationalist political parties - Unionists will soon be ruled by Irish people in the north.

And as sure as night follows day - the first chance we get, the people of this country, north and south, will vote the occupied 6 counties back into a reunified Ireland - AND the EU.

Just a few weeks ago on BBC radio, one of England's former Under-Secretaries in Ireland stated that Nationalists will be the majority in the occupied 6 counties of Ireland in 2 to 3 years. 44 minutes in. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0002164

Just yesterday in the brit hoc, the brit PM warned the DUPid Party that should the UK crash out of the EU, Ireland would reunify causing the UK to break-up.

She didn't mention Scotland - but a UK crash out of the EU or the occupied 6 counties staying in the EU CU and SM will piss Scotland off - also causing the break-up of the UK.

It's all good for patriotic Irish people - the status quo of the UK remaining in the EU would be the worst option for the reunification of Ireland and the break-up of the UK.

Tick-tock...
 

Marcella

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
3,706
The not the right time brigade need to realise that events will not wait for them. Brexit and Arlene Foster has finished any chances of the younger growing nationalist population buying into Stormont.

At this stage the Irish government really need to start planning for at least the border poll if not actual reunification.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Messages
3,114
The not the right time brigade need to realise that events will not wait for them. Brexit and Arlene Foster has finished any chances of the younger growing nationalist population buying into Stormont.

At this stage the Irish government really need to start planning for at least the border poll if not actual reunification.
Self-interest and self-preservation dictate that isn't going to happen any time soon, because the numbers simply don't stack up for FG, so we could be heading towards a bizarre situation where we end up with the much-mooted demographic shift in the 6 Counties, which will produce a voting Nationalist majority, but a government in the south which isn't prepared to accommodate that change, at least not until it secures its own interests within the context of a United Ireland. The problem is compounded by the problems with the Left and parties such as the Socialist Party who are singing from the same hymn sheet as the government, insofar as they have said they don't support a UI via 50%+1, the Labour Party and the Socialist Democrats won't look beyond the border, the Socialist Republican constituency are too far behind to make up the lost ground in the short-to-medium term and are also ideologically too divided over the question of continued membership of the EU, and some of them view unity within that context as meaningless, although I'm not quite sure how they square that with what the majority of the people want, which appears to be A) Re-unification and B) EU membership, so even if SF were to turn things around in the south and get the bounce they expected under the new leadership from 15%-20%, it's difficult to be optimistic or to see where the political vehicle to bring unity into being is going to emerge from. The further SF move to the right to accommodate a coalition with FF and FG, the further away from their voting base they will go. When Varadkar called Imelda Munster a donkey recently, it left me wondering what SF supporters who have been floating the idea that they could do business with the Blueshirts were thinking, so I think it'll be interesting if SF continue to grow in the north, but go into meltdown at the forthcoming local elections in the south. Time alone and time will tell, what the psychological impact of Bradley's comments were on younger people, and I certainly don't envy anyone trying to convince the young nationalist population in the north of the merit of politics. I hope history makes a liar of me and it doesn't prove to be the straw that broke the camels back but I get a sinking feeling when I think about it too much.
 
Last edited:
Top