Can foreign vulture fund absentee landlords be banned from owning property it doesn't occupy?

Congalltee

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Here is yet another example of the Irish property market being distorted by foreign vulture funds (not that I'm arguing that domestic fund managers are benign to tenants).

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0801/894396-saint-helens-court-dublin/

"Article 43

The State acknowledges that man, in virtue of his rational being, has the natural right, antecedent to positive law, to the private ownership of external goods.

The State accordingly guarantees to pass no law attempting to abolish the right of private ownership or the general right to transfer, bequeath, and inherit property.

The State recognises, however, that the exercise of the rights mentioned in the foregoing provisions of this Article ought, in civil society, to be regulated by the principles of social justice.

The State, accordingly, may as occasion requires delimit by law the exercise of the said rights with a view to reconciling their exercise with the exigencies of the common good."

Questions:
A) can it be done lawfully?
B) would it be desirable?
C) would EU vulture funds have to be permitted to be landlords in Ireland?
 


hammer

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Jaysus Mr Angry here on p.ie wants no private landlords.

He loves these companies

Supposedly properties better kept and prices stable
 

Mushroom

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A) can it be done lawfully?
B) would it be desirable?
C) would EU vulture funds have to be permitted to be landlords in Ireland?

No.

No.

No.
 

Mushroom

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users

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Every time someone proposes a measure such as preventing banks offloading under-performing loans to vulture funds I wonder if I with my variable rate mortgage am the one expected to pay for it.
 

hammer

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Variable rate mortgage holders got a raw deal. Wait until rates start rising again in about 3 years.

Armageddon
 

Niall996

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What does 'antecedent to positive law' mean?
 

carlovian

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This vulture fund tried to increase rents last year by huge amounts but were told by the rtb they couldn't.

So they use the improving the property exemption and throw 17 families out on the street.

Anyone want to guess where the rents will be when the work is finished?
Landlord Coveneys rules allow them to increase over 4% after improvements.

Nice to see pwc getting their cut of the action as well.

Keep the recovery going fg.
 

Mushroom

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This vulture fund tried to increase rents last year by huge amounts but were told by the rtb they couldn't.

So they use the improving the property exemption and throw 17 families out on the street.

Anyone want to guess where the rents will be when the work is finished?
Landlord Coveneys rules allow them to increase over 4% after improvements.

Nice to see pwc getting their cut of the action as well.

Keep the recovery going fg.

I wish them luck. They're doing everything by the book so fair dues to them. Furthermore, I want to see the value of my REIT rise!
 

Mushroom

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A reasoned opinion in response to question A would be appreciated (if you are able. if you can't no worries, I don't think any less of you)
Disclaimer: I'm not a constitutional lawyer. Nor am I a lawyer. Not even a barrack room lawyer.

My answer was based on the Fundamental Right to own Private Property expressed in Art 43.

But as there is legislation that allows for the Compulsory Purchase of land and property by various State bodies - so there must be some way around that right. (Although I recall the Supreme Court finding against the IDA in a CPO case a couple of years ago.)

I also recall Alan Kelly complaining that Article 43 was blocking him from seizing either land or property to help tackle the homelessness problem when he was Minister for Housing.

So my more nuanced answer to question A is: perhaps, although I strongly doubt it.
 

Ceartgoleor

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Questions:
A) can it be done lawfully?
B) would it be desirable?
C) would EU vulture funds have to be permitted to be landlords in Ireland?
Yes.Yes. Who cares.

The state has many times in the past interfered in the property market. They have given tax incentives to people to buy their own home - first time buyers etc.. They have given builders incentives and lately as we know all too well this FG&ff government created the Vulture fund phenomenon with tax fee incentives and NAMA presents.

The state can interfere again 'if they wish'? They can go around the vultures, undermine them and collapse them by increasing building and home buyer incentives for the plain people and undermine the vultures assets so that property prices spiral down to a normal level. We did it before we can do it again. Where there is a will there is a way.

It would be very simple for an honest politician and party that put the ordinary person ahead of the Landlord class.
However problem is I believe most of our politicians are now members of the Landlord class.
Back to the 19th century!
 

carlovian

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I wish them luck. They're doing everything by the book so fair dues to them. Furthermore, I want to see the value of my REIT rise!
Seeing as they wrote the book that doesn't say much.

Making money from 17 families homeless ?

Could you not get involved in arms or drug dealing as well ?

Great profit margins for the fg entrepreneur
 

Mushroom

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Seeing as they wrote the book that doesn't say much.

Making money from 17 families homeless ?

Could you not get involved in arms or drug dealing as well ?

Great profit margins for the fg entrepreneur
Meh - zero sum game. 17 tenants leave and 17 new tenants are delighted to move in.


BTW, if you'd like me to sell your organs for you, I have excellent contacts, so just send me a PM. My cut is a mere 7½%
 
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Gin Soaked

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Every time someone proposes a measure such as preventing banks offloading under-performing loans to vulture funds I wonder if I with my variable rate mortgage am the one expected to pay for it.
There you go with reason again...

It's not a moral hazard when I benefit. Coz, I'm, like, different. I just slipped into that Interest only mortgage....
 

sic transit

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Yes.Yes. Who cares.

The state has many times in the past interfered in the property market. They have given tax incentives to people to buy their own home - first time buyers etc.. They have given builders incentives and lately as we know all too well this FG&ff government created the Vulture fund phenomenon with tax fee incentives and NAMA presents.

The state can interfere again 'if they wish'? They can go around the vultures, undermine them and collapse them by increasing building and home buyer incentives for the plain people and undermine the vultures assets so that property prices spiral down to a normal level. We did it before we can do it again. Where there is a will there is a way.

It would be very simple for an honest politician and party that put the ordinary person ahead of the Landlord class.
However problem is I believe most of our politicians are now members of the Landlord class.
Back to the 19th century!
There are something like 170,000 landlords in Ireland and many planned to use income for their kids and quite probably their retirement. The are only 17 properties in one location here, bloody awful for those concerned but hardly of a widespread mailaise.
 

carlovian

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Meh - zero sum game. 17 tenants leave and new tenants are be delighted to move in.


BTW, if you'd like me to sell your organs for you, I have excellent contacts, so just send me a PM. My cut is a mere 7½%
It's what I like about fg.

Ff pretend to care about the less well off whereas with fg we know where they stand.

Plus it's not zero sum as the apartments will lie empty while the 17 families end up on the street
 

ionsniffer

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course they can, sure we're the best little country in the world to do business
 


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