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Can modern Islam ever align with Irish human rights ?


kerdasi amaq

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Personally I have no religion. ..and I don't object to others having religion per se

Though I have differing degrees of quibbles with different religions...for example I prefer Buddhism to Roman Catholicism

However I find a large gulf between most modern versions of Islam and those of Christianity.

Ben Carson agrees
Ben Carson says no Muslim should ever become US president | US news | The Guardian


My problems with Islam are
1) It explicitly agitates for Islamic states with Sharia law etc
2) It justifies wide ranging violence
3) It gives significantly less rights to women than men
4) Muhammad, its poster boy was quite blood thirsty
5) It views people not of a particular Islamic sect very dimly

I am dubious as to whether Islam can ever be compatible with Irish civil rights. Thus I'd suggest
A) Islamic schools ought to be banned
B) Children of Islamists ought to be closely monitored for sharia style indoctrination
C) Female Islamic adults ought to be reached out to in order to ensure they are not oppressed

Cyp
The easiest way to avoid any cultural clashes with the Islamic faith is to insist that all Irish Muslims move to the Dar al-Islam.
 


Hillmanhunter1

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My problems with Islam are
1) It explicitly agitates for Islamic states with Sharia law etc
2) It justifies wide ranging violence
3) It gives significantly less rights to women than men
4) Muhammad, its poster boy was quite blood thirsty
5) It views people not of a particular Islamic sect very dimly


Have a look at the Old Testament - there's some fairly mad stuff there too. The issue is not what sort of madness is in a "holy book" but whether or not people pay any attention to it. Your thread title refers to "modern Islam". The modern Muslims that I know are broadly as moderate as the Christians that I know. They hold Shari'a law to be equal, but no more, to Cannon law.

I am dubious as to whether Islam can ever be compatible with Irish civil rights. Thus I'd suggest
A) Islamic schools ought to be banned

Sure, ban all religious schools as far as I'm concerned, the State has no business promulgating religion.

B) Children of Islamists ought to be closely monitored for sharia style indoctrination
No, that is racist profiling.

C) Female Islamic adults ought to be reached out to in order to ensure they are not oppressed
No, but face covering should be banned, it's not compatible with Western culture. There should also be prosecutions and jail-time for FGM.
 

tsarbomb

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Good to see this


Of course the Facebook version of the story now branding Rooskey a Nazi backwater...but I'd say they don't much care.
I doubt that the real reason the project was cancelled was a difficulty with the lease. The real reason was probably how unpopular the whole thing is
 

SweenyTodd

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Human rights? what human rights are there in Ireland? We just voted last year for abortion for any reason. Killing the inconvenient.
I don't know much about islam but at least they don't appear to have such cruel rights.
 

SweenyTodd

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I would suggest people go to visit a Mosque to find out about Islam, you will find a kind, generous community. Don't rely on the media and people with a hate agenda.


I have much respect how the Islamic community supports each other in Europe.

They also have more respect for Christianity then many Europeans.
"

They also have more respect for Christianity then many Europeans. "

I have no link for this but isn't the virgin Mary the only woman mentioned by name in the Koran.
 
D

Deleted member 51920

Have a look at the Old Testament - there's some fairly mad stuff there too. The issue is not what sort of madness is in a "holy book" but whether or not people pay any attention to it. Your thread title refers to "modern Islam". The modern Muslims that I know are broadly as moderate as the Christians that I know. They hold Shari'a law to be equal, but no more, to Cannon law.
You would be wrong to assume the bubble you live in is in any way typical of Muslim thinking generally
In reality, the vast majority of Muslims worldwide believe that Sharia Law should be the official law of the country they live in
Which inevitably would result in their country becoming a failed State - if its not one already

gsi2-chp1-3.png
 

soubresauts

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Hillmanhunter1

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You would be wrong to assume the bubble you live in is in any way typical of Muslim thinking generally
In reality, the vast majority of Muslims worldwide believe that Sharia Law should be the official law of the country they live in
Which inevitably would result in their country becoming a failed State - if its not one already

View attachment 17191
Al though I generally value the output of Pew Research there are too many caveats (via footnotes) and too many countries missing (the whole of the Arabian Peninsula).

Interesting, but not evidence.
 
D

Deleted member 51920

Al though I generally value the output of Pew Research there are too many caveats (via footnotes) and too many countries missing (the whole of the Arabian Peninsula).

Interesting, but not evidence.
There's enough evidence there to scare the living daylights out of any rational person
 

Hillmanhunter1

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There's enough evidence there to scare the living daylights out of any rational person
Scaring the living daylights out of rational people seems to be the purpose of much discourse these days.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
The question in the OP gives rise to another. What IS the Irish view of human rights in comparison to international norms?

That is a philosophical question which lies behind much of the political issues of the last decade in Ireland. The state's defence at the UNCAT hearings in New York was that it had no responsibility to regulate private institutions.

The UN Panel had to correct the Secretary General of the Dept of Justice and point out to him that Ireland under its UN membership obligations had a responsibility to oversee and regulate both public and private institutions.

So there can even be a misunderstanding-and a pretty serious one on the international stage- within the civil service and government circles where our responsibility to human rights norms doesn't at times come up to the mark. Although the same bould representatives are equally adept at the old Hibernian evasion strategy of acting the fool to distract from the charge.
 

A Voice

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The question in the OP gives rise to another. What IS the Irish view of human rights in comparison to international norms?

So there can even be a misunderstanding-and a pretty serious one on the international stage- within the civil service and government circles where our responsibility to human rights norms doesn't at times come up to the mark. Although the same bould representatives are equally adept at the old Hibernian evasion strategy of acting the fool to distract from the charge.
Looks like a distraction attempt of your own to switch from Islam vis-a-vis Ireland to Ireland vis-a-vis the UN.
And the UN is a joke. Saudi Arabia on the UN Commission on the Status of Women?? A body “dedicated to the promotion of gender equality and the empowerment of women.”
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Not half as much a joke as an apparent global religious organisation providing an epidemic of damaged individuals to carry out attacks on children around the world.

And then expecting to be heard on the subject of 'morality' or social justice.
 

A Voice

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Not half as much a joke as an apparent global religious organisation providing an epidemic of damaged individuals to carry out attacks on children around the world.

And then expecting to be heard on the subject of 'morality' or social justice.
Another distraction attempt. And the crimes you refer to contravene that church's own codes.
More worrying is the religion that judicially authorises executions of homosexuals or mandates or the devaluing of a woman's testimony in court. Which would be on topic, as you know.
 

Buchaill Dana

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Another distraction attempt. And the crimes you refer to contravene that church's own codes.
More worrying is the religion that judicially authorises executions of homosexuals or mandates or the devaluing of a woman's testimony in court. Which would be on topic, as you know.
So your interpretation of religion a's teachings beats the actual behaviours of religion b?

Try that again.

The point is any religion having power is damaging. The damage manifests itself differently, but it is damage.
 

Collegebhoy

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"

They also have more respect for Christianity then many Europeans. "

I have no link for this but isn't the virgin Mary the only woman mentioned by name in the Koran.
She is mentioned as the virgin mother of Jesus, but they also think she is the sister of Aaron and Moses. Such misunderstandings arise when you plagiarise material you have no comprehension of.
 

A Voice

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So your interpretation of religion a's teachings beats the actual behaviours of religion b?

Try that again.

The point is any religion having power is damaging. The damage manifests itself differently, but it is damage.
Quite. Sort of like dangling from cranes vs having to listen to arguments against your getting married, say. (And of course you're free to disregard, despise and vote against such advice hereabouts.)
 

Buchaill Dana

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Quite. Sort of like dangling from cranes vs having to listen to arguments against your getting married, say. (And of course you're free to disregard, despise and vote against such advice hereabouts.)
Yeah, the worst thing religion did in Ireland was argue about marraige
 

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