Can shipping and tracking software be developed for a soft border with Northern Ireland at an economic cost?

Patslatt1

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Can shipping and tracking software be developed for a soft border with Northern Ireland at an economic cost?

If the UK balks at the cost of developing such a system as agreed to in principle but not in detail,a very high cost may tip the scales towards a hard Brexit.

I hope P.ie experts on software logistics will offer opinions on the feasability of this system.

The system would likely be similar to a massively scaled up version of the US Postal Service's parcel deliveries https://bizfluent.com/how-8761146-track-usps-parcel-customs.html This integrates customs procedures and forms into the delivery service.

Batches of widgets to be shipped would be identified by barcodes as to customs and excise status and a tracking device would be attached to the container or package. Prior to crossing the border, the shipping agent would notify customs of the destination(s) of the widgets and pay the customs duties. Customs would enter the details on its databases. The tracking device would enable customs to track the shipment.

A statistical sampling system would need to be developed for different goods to optimise the percentages of customs inspections. The inspections might be as few as 3% on some goods (Checking 3% of transactions is standard in auditing accounts).The inspections could take place by stopping a truck on the road or in the destination(s).

Large illegal shipments could be caught on the roads by randomly checking trucks near border areas that are not on the customs shipment tracking system. However, it would be difficult to prevent small illegal shipments without intelligence such as satellite surveillance of border traffic.Maybe those shipments wouldn't matter.
 


Peppermint

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If the UK balks at the cost of developing such a system as agreed to in principle but not in detail,a very high cost may tip the scales towards a hard Brexit.

I hope P.ie experts on software logistics will offer opinions on the feasability of this system.

The system would likely be similar to a massively scaled up version of the US Postal Service's parcel deliveries https://bizfluent.com/how-8761146-track-usps-parcel-customs.html This integrates customs procedures and forms into the delivery service.

Batches of widgets to be shipped would be identified by barcodes as to customs and excise status and a tracking device would be attached to the container or package. Prior to crossing the border, the shipping agent would notify customs of the destination(s) of the widgets and pay the customs duties. Customs would enter the details on its databases. The tracking device would enable customs to track the shipment.

A statistical sampling system would need to be developed for different goods to optimise the percentages of customs inspections. The inspections might be as few as 3% on some goods (Checking 3% of transactions is standard in auditing accounts).The inspections could take place by stopping a truck on the road or in the destination(s).

Large illegal shipments could be caught on the roads by randomly checking trucks near border areas that are not on the customs shipment tracking system. However, it would be difficult to prevent small illegal shipments without intelligence such as satellite surveillance of border traffic.Maybe those shipments wouldn't matter.
How can I put this? But not a hope in hell...

Your first question who develops the bar codes? Where do they come from and who do you trust to generate them? Then who controls these bar codes?

And what kind of tracking device? Name the device? Tracking can be done by a mobile phone, some times, it can be done by local people, some times, it can be done by some form of tracking device, sometimes, but you can give us your fool proof device?
 

SPN

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A) Not a hope in hell (as peppermint rightly says)

B) Have you ever spent time along the border?

C) Brexit will not happen.
 

Franzoni

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Build de wall......the clampers of the Republic demand it....all dem nordie builders in Dubblin are cuttin' dem ould clamps of dem vans left ,right and centre ...and we all know where it will end ....with Nige the frog part deux is where .....
 

GDPR

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So Pat the Slatt is going to microchip all our sheep and cows, is he ....
 

Franzoni

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So Pat the Slatt is going to microchip all our sheep and cows, is he ....
We don't need no stinkin' technology....

No senorita...all we will have to do is like the old day.......bring de the ear with the tag on it to de locale Federale...de cow,sheep and El puerco can still go on dere way.....de engerlish hombre hee no need no ....:cool:
 

gleeful

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Solution is obvious - blockchain mining AI robo drones. Blue sky thinking. We just need world class nerds to nerd up a solution. COME ON PEOPLE.
 

Dame_Enda

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I am puzzled by the argument it can't work here when it works between Norway and the EU.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-ireland-border-customs-norway-sweden/

......Norway, a country of 5 million people, has a 1,630-kilometer land border with Sweden. Its people chose not to join the EU at a referendum in 1994, after concern spread that doing so would cost the country control over its productive fishing grounds.....Norway has had a border cooperation agreement with Sweden since 1959 and with the EU since 1997, said Jørgen Næsje, a senior official at the finance ministry, which has oversight of the customs service.

“The agreement aims to ensure efficient border control and a so-called one-stop shop, allowing traffic coming into either country to be checked only once,” he said. “At the same time, both countries are allowed to check goods on the neighboring territory, if for instance smuggling is suspected.”...But one lesson from Norway is that even with the Nordic country’s close ties to the bloc, border checks are necessary. Cars entering Norway at Ørje are stopped and drivers asked for their destination and the purpose of their visit. The border post was recently extended and rebuilt with new barriers and cameras. Staffing has also been increased....
The NI-Southern Ireland border is tiny compared to the Norway-Sweden border.
 

paddycomeback

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If the EU concern is us getting stuff from outside of the customs union, just get the UK to pay an estimated tariff on the "bleed" over the border. I very much doubt much UK stuff would be re-exported off the island to mainland EU.
 

toconn

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I am puzzled by the argument it can't work here when it works between Norway and the EU.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-ireland-border-customs-norway-sweden/



The NI-Southern Ireland border is tiny compared to the Norway-Sweden border.
The Norway / Sweden situation still causes added formalities and some slight complications. However Norway is in the EEA and accepts the standards , movement rules eye of the EU fully. The UK and its DUP head banging allies are saying it is leaving the single market , customs union and ECJ rules completely . If that scenario happens then a totally different situation altogether.
 

an modh coinniolach

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If the EU concern is us getting stuff from outside of the customs union, just get the UK to pay an estimated tariff on the "bleed" over the border. I very much doubt much UK stuff would be re-exported off the island to mainland EU.
Wait until the cheap Kiwi and Brazilian meat starts rolling into the UK and NI. The IFA will be have a hard border up in jig time, the only question is whether it will be in Newry or Holyhead.
 

GJG

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I am puzzled by the argument it can't work here when it works between Norway and the EU.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-ireland-border-customs-norway-sweden/



The NI-Southern Ireland border is tiny compared to the Norway-Sweden border.
You are ignoring the issue that both Norway (EEA) and Sweden (EU) are in the single market, so there is little incentive to have goods fall off the back of a lorry. The UK is proposing that NI leaves the single market, so there will be significant tariff and non-tariff differences between the treatment of goods on each side of the border.

The UK seem to envisage creating some sort of Schrödinger's Border that both does and does not exist at the same time, and blather on about electronic controls like the one that you mention. This makes no sense.

Track and trace systems are used by the sender and recipient to control shipping, both are highly motivated to make sure the goods are traceable. They work essentially because the sender and recipient are motivated to make it work, and each person in the chain is motivated to make sure that the next person is recording taking it from them.

That way, if anything goes missing, you can immediately pinpoint who had it last, and nobody can shrug and say 'Not me guv'. Also, delivery companies can run stats to catch fix tardy or less reliable links in the chain.

That is not the situation here. Border checks are designed to intercept goods where the sender and recipient are motivated to have goods not recorded. Exactly how replacing border checks with bar codes would achieve this has never been explained.
 

wexfordman

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Patslatt1

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How can I put this? But not a hope in hell...

Your first question who develops the bar codes? Where do they come from and who do you trust to generate them? Then who controls these bar codes?

And what kind of tracking device? Name the device? Tracking can be done by a mobile phone, some times, it can be done by local people, some times, it can be done by some form of tracking device, sometimes, but you can give us your fool proof device?
Encrypted devices might solve the problems above. International techniclal standards would hve to be agreed beween the UK and the EU.
 

Patslatt1

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If the EU concern is us getting stuff from outside of the customs union, just get the UK to pay an estimated tariff on the "bleed" over the border. I very much doubt much UK stuff would be re-exported off the island to mainland EU.
If Ireland is forcd to develop advanced shipping systems to the EU instead of relying on shipping through the UK, that could attract mainland British shipments routed through NI.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Will there be a paradigm shift followed by synergy?
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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At the moment if a lad wants to give his friend in NI a half key of charlie all he has to do is drive to said mate's house with it in a nice wee bag and deliver. Say his mate wanted to reward his generous friend with an equally lavish gift of say 50k he could stick that in a nice wallet and hand it over. The southern lad could then drive home and no one needs be the wiser.

A friend wants to know will this traditional exchange of gifts be precluded by the new border arrangements?
 

Patslatt1

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You are ignoring the issue that both Norway (EEA) and Sweden (EU) are in the single market, so there is little incentive to have goods fall off the back of a lorry. The UK is proposing that NI leaves the single market, so there will be significant tariff and non-tariff differences between the treatment of goods on each side of the border.

The UK seem to envisage creating some sort of Schrödinger's Border that both does and does not exist at the same time, and blather on about electronic controls like the one that you mention. This makes no sense.

Track and trace systems are used by the sender and recipient to control shipping, both are highly motivated to make sure the goods are traceable. They work essentially because the sender and recipient are motivated to make it work, and each person in the chain is motivated to make sure that the next person is recording taking it from them.

That way, if anything goes missing, you can immediately pinpoint who had it last, and nobody can shrug and say 'Not me guv'. Also, delivery companies can run stats to catch fix tardy or less reliable links in the chain.

That is not the situation here. Border checks are designed to intercept goods where the sender and recipient are motivated to have goods not recorded. Exactly how replacing border checks with bar codes would achieve this has never been explained.
Sender and recipient could inform customs about shipment details under agreed technical standards. Tracking devices including satellites plus barcodes could supply the necessary checks on evasion. Samples of shipments would need to be audited by customs on the destination routes or at destinations.. The percentage of sample audits would vary with particular goods. Shipments of low tariff goods migh need a fraction of the audits of shipments of high tariff goods.
 


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