Can we drop the pretence that Fianna Fáil is a Republican Party?

ruserious

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Taoiseach Micheál Martin today said that a border poll is divisive and he doesn’t believe it is the way forward. Instead he speaks of a shared island with greater co-operation. In other words, a continuance of the status quo with more island wide quangos to stick his FF buddies into.

Fianna Fáil no longer represent the idea of a United Ireland. They are free to do so, but what they cannot do is; claim to be a Republican Party.
 


McSlaggart

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Taoiseach Micheál Martin today said that a border poll is divisive and he doesn’t believe it is the way forward. Instead he speaks of a shared island with greater co-operation. In other words, a continuance of the status quo with more island wide quangos to stick his FF buddies into.

Fianna Fáil no longer represent the idea of a United Ireland. They are free to do so, but what they cannot do is; claim to be a Republican Party.

"oh lord please make me pure but not yet"
 

hiding behind a poster

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Taoiseach Micheál Martin today said that a border poll is divisive and he doesn’t believe it is the way forward. Instead he speaks of a shared island with greater co-operation. In other words, a continuance of the status quo with more island wide quangos to stick his FF buddies into.

Fianna Fáil no longer represent the idea of a United Ireland. They are free to do so, but what they cannot do is; claim to be a Republican Party.
What's your definition of republicanism?
 

ruserious

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What's your definition of republicanism?
It’s not my definition that matters here but Fianna Fáil who have historically seen themselves as the defenders of Irish Republicanism. If they are now trying to redefine their Republicanism via more international meanings, they can expect to be called out on that. That you, YOU, of all people are seeking to defend Fianna Fáil from FG HQ, shows that you have absolutely no independent thought for you spent the last 10 years bashing Fianna Fáil on here on behalf of your beloved Fine Gael.
 

bang bang

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What's your definition of republicanism?
In the political sense, actively working towards and using your influence to promote a UI and support a referendum on same, bringing about a system of government which treats it's citizens equally.The sooner the six county abomination in history the better. FF, certainly under the leadership of MM are not a republican party.
 

Sidewindered

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Fianna Fail haven't been in any way Republican, in practice, ever.

They have always been a shower of "wrap the flag round me boys" chancers who don't, and never have, given two flying fncks about the North. Since the 1930s they only ever paid lip-service at election time to soak up some extra votes from low-information rural inbreeds, but in practice they have always treated all Northern Nationalists with complete contempt, and they utterly despise Northern Republicans.

They stopped even paying lip service to the notion of a united Ireland once the rat Ahern became leader. That snivelling little gobshite purged the party of what remained of even nominally national-minded personnel. They've been quite vehemently and openly anti-UI ever since. The only FF figures that even bother to pretend any more would be Senator Mark Daly and every once in a while Dev Og (though that's probably purely out of habit and to keep the Connemara grassroots happy)

In terms of "soundness on the National Question" modern FF are on a par with - or possibly even slightly to the right of - Labour. It's a strange world where of the traditional Big Three parties for most of the lifetime of the State, these days it is only Fine Gael where some embers of nationalist sentiment slumber. Even with their loony John Bruton-esque Empire Loyalist fringe I'd still, on balance, have some (small) faith that FG might actually sometimes consider the entire nation. FF and Labour these days, forget it. Partitionist and hysterically anti-Republican to their very bones.
 

hiding behind a poster

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It’s not my definition that matters here but Fianna Fáil who have historically seen themselves as the defenders of Irish Republicanism. If they are now trying to redefine their Republicanism via more international meanings, they can expect to be called out on that. That you, YOU, of all people are seeking to defend Fianna Fáil from FG HQ, shows that you have absolutely no independent thought for you spent the last 10 years bashing Fianna Fáil on here on behalf of your beloved Fine Gael.
Sorry, but you're the one who's saying that they can't claim to be a republican party anymore. Meanwhile they still call themselves a republican party, so if they're failing your test then the least you can do is outline what your test actually is.
 

hiding behind a poster

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In the political sense, actively working towards and using your influence to promote a UI and support a referendum on same, bringing about a system of government which treats it's citizens equally.The sooner the six county abomination in history the better. FF, certainly under the leadership of MM are not a republican party.
I don't remember a referendum commitment ever being part of the accepted definition of republicanism in Ireland. Looks to me like you've just tagged that one on because it's something Sinn Fein are looking for. And the rest of your definition is pretty subjective, as every party in the country claims that they aim to treat all citizens equally.
 

Splodge

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I don't remember a referendum commitment ever being part of the accepted definition of republicanism in Ireland. Looks to me like you've just tagged that one on because it's something Sinn Fein are looking for. And the rest of your definition is pretty subjective, as every party in the country claims that they aim to treat all citizens equally.
Especially Denis O Bribe in the case of your party.
 

Dame_Enda

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Can we drop the pretence that the shortest road is the smoothest one?

A slower, longer journey can be smoother, and reduces the risk of crashing the car.
 

bang bang

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Fianna Fail haven't been in any way Republican, in practice, ever.

They have always been a shower of "wrap the flag round me boys" chancers who don't, and never have, given two flying fncks about the North. Since the 1930s they only ever paid lip-service at election time to soak up some extra votes from low-information rural inbreeds, but in practice they have always treated all Northern Nationalists with complete contempt, and they utterly despise Northern Republicans.

They stopped even paying lip service to the notion of a united Ireland once the rat Ahern became leader. That snivelling little gobshite purged the party of what remained of even nominally national-minded personnel. They've been quite vehemently and openly anti-UI ever since. The only FF figures that even bother to pretend any more would be Senator Mark Daly and every once in a while Dev Og (though that's probably purely out of habit and to keep the Connemara grassroots happy)

In terms of "soundness on the National Question" modern FF are on a par with - or possibly even slightly to the right of - Labour. It's a strange world where of the traditional Big Three parties for most of the lifetime of the State, these days it is only Fine Gael where some embers of nationalist sentiment slumber. Even with their loony John Bruton-esque Empire Loyalist fringe I'd still, on balance, have some (small) faith that FG might actually sometimes consider the entire nation. FF and Labour these days, forget it. Partitionist and hysterically anti-Republican to their very bones.
That is a cracking post, most of which I strongly agree with. I actually meant to say in my earlier post I trust FG more on the national question than FF and have done for some considerable time, empire wing aside!
 

Angler

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Fianna Fail haven't been in any way Republican, in practice, ever.

They have always been a shower of "wrap the flag round me boys" chancers who don't, and never have, given two flying fncks about the North. Since the 1930s they only ever paid lip-service at election time to soak up some extra votes from low-information rural inbreeds, but in practice they have always treated all Northern Nationalists with complete contempt, and they utterly despise Northern Republicans.

They stopped even paying lip service to the notion of a united Ireland once the rat Ahern became leader. That snivelling little gobshite purged the party of what remained of even nominally national-minded personnel. They've been quite vehemently and openly anti-UI ever since. The only FF figures that even bother to pretend any more would be Senator Mark Daly and every once in a while Dev Og (though that's probably purely out of habit and to keep the Connemara grassroots happy)

In terms of "soundness on the National Question" modern FF are on a par with - or possibly even slightly to the right of - Labour. It's a strange world where of the traditional Big Three parties for most of the lifetime of the State, these days it is only Fine Gael where some embers of nationalist sentiment slumber. Even with their loony John Bruton-esque Empire Loyalist fringe I'd still, on balance, have some (small) faith that FG might actually sometimes consider the entire nation. FF and Labour these days, forget it. Partitionist and hysterically anti-Republican to their very bones.
It's all about power and patronage with FF ,and a UI would upset the present Electoral status quo,a redundant, utterly corrupt and corrupting entity, devoid of principle and decent ethical standards.FG should have stood their ground and not allowed this bunch of nyucks lead a government.
 

farnaby

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Can we drop the pretence that Fianna Fáil is a Republican Party?

Can we drop the pretence that 'republican' is a well defined term in Ireland.
In this context it's probably a better exercise to try to find any aspect of republicanism among the many that exist that could apply to FF.

Openly striving for a UI? No
Equality of all citizens? No, 'our' people can play by different rules
Upholding the sanctity of public office? Mwahahahahah no. Never explain, never resign
Respect for key institutions of the state? No e.g. Dail voting scandal
Rejection of royalty and aristocracy? Maybe but Haughey had rather regal airs
 

Marcos the black

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In this context it's probably a better exercise to try to find any aspect of republicanism among the many that exist that could apply to FF.

Openly striving for a UI? No
Equality of all citizens? No, 'our' people can play by different rules
Upholding the sanctity of public office? Mwahahahahah no. Never explain, never resign
Respect for key institutions of the state? No e.g. Dail voting scandal
Rejection of royalty and aristocracy? Maybe but Haughey had rather regal airs
There are many to this day who still think that Haughey was a hero..
 

Ireniall

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Can we drop the pretence that the shortest road is the smoothest one?

A slower, longer journey can be smoother, and reduces the risk of crashing the car.
The slower smoother route will probably get you there quicker too. However Ruserious has something of a point nonetheless. It's plain that there is no great enthusiasm for a united Ireland in the south amongst the political classes and most certainly there MM was essentially telling us that his vision of unity is one where NI stays in the UK but there is a high level of co-operation- a kind of unity except in name only. Great but lets not get too excited over it. We have that with our fellow EU members already to a fair extent.

If you are a moderate type of person in the south there are two ways that you can go when presented with the unity problem. You can react by thinking that it's impossible without too many unacceptable consequences or you can decide that over a long period you can make concessions to those who do not want unity while at the same time unapologetically promoting unity. It seems to me that FF is in the former camp and FG is in the latter.

As shown by the RIC commemoration debacle FF are incapable of easily making the concessions needed to persuade Unionists of the most open-minded variety to consider unity and even those like Mark Daly who obviously is motivated -but he comes with a clunking great tricolour hanging over his desk. In a united Ireland the tricolour will go. If you're serious about unity you have to face up to the price. That is why FG, now shorn of its frightful ultra Catholic wing, is now the only true united Ireland party. They are not hung up on conceding to the Unionists sometimes but since brexit they have developed a re-assuring hard nosed attitude to Unionist arrogance at the same time. To me -it's the prefect combination.
 

farnaby

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There are many to this day who still think that Haughey was a hero..
Always remember my grandmother raging about one of her friends who said "he's the only honest one among them" :ROFLMAO:. This was at a point when there was plenty of evidence mounting against him. A Trump-like scenario where the tribe turned their backs on the truth because it didn't suit Great Leader.
 

james toney

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A Fianna Fail party that is on 13% in the polls and MM about to bring his party off the cliff,suddenly now thinks he is the GFA?
He in for a rude awakening...no matter what the lunatic Eoghan Harris tells him.
 


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