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Can you be a socialist/Left wing and favour tough immigration laws?

regnal gib 1

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Oct 5, 2011
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Was recently in a discussion with a few Labour youth guys about left wing policies/ideas. The topic of tougher immigration laws arose and the Labour guys were of the opinion, that one could not claim to be a Socialist if they favoured tough Immigration laws. How do P.ie posters view such a statement?
 


Dame_Enda

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I'm not a Socialist. Having said that, Socialism is about state control of the means of production. In theory it has nothing to do with immigration. It could be argued from a Socialist perspective that to preserve the affordability of the welfare-state, immigration should be controlled. It could also be argued that open borders allow employers to drive down wages, leading to increased poverty.
 

regnal gib 1

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I'm not a Socialist. Having said that, Socialism is about state control of the means of production. In theory it has nothing to do with immigration. It could be argued from a Socialist perspective that to preserve the affordability of the welfare-state, immigration should be controlled. It could also be argued that open borders allow employers to drive down wages, leading to increased poverty.
Would agree with the above and mentioned a similar point but these guys were having none of it.
 

Dame_Enda

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Were any of them solicitors? The legal profession make bags of money from immigration related cases.
 
R

Ramps

Was recently in a discussion with a few Labour youth guys about left wing policies/ideas. The topic of tougher immigration laws arose and the Labour guys were of the opinion, that one could not claim to be a Socialist if they favoured tough Immigration laws. How do P.ie posters view such a statement?
It's wrong. Full stop. Being a socialist doesn't mean you approve or disapprove of immigration.

In fact, those most likely to be in favour of immigration are those who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum to socialists..... libertarians!!
 
Joined
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Was recently in a discussion with a few Labour youth guys about left wing policies/ideas. The topic of tougher immigration laws arose and the Labour guys were of the opinion, that one could not claim to be a Socialist if they favoured tough Immigration laws. How do P.ie posters view such a statement?
Why would any sentient being allow themselves to have all of their views determined by a single political philosophy?

Are they unable to think for themselves?
 
R

Ramps

Would agree with the above and mentioned a similar point but these guys were having none of it.
Ask them how they would feel if their beloved welfare state were abolished (as it would if "relaxed" immigration were introduced)!
 

blokesbloke

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Jan 13, 2011
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Of course you can. I suppose a lot of people would say if you're a true socialist you should apply those principles to everyone in the world.

However it is clearly a nonsense that one country can take immigrants from every poor country and provide for them - it would cause the host country to collapse.

A socialist will want to build a socialist society in their own country. They may want some immigration, but I don't see it as an instrinsic part of socialism.
 

darkhorse

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Dec 12, 2005
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Its one of the rocks that destroys theoretical socialism
Their core vote is supposed to be from the working classes
But these are the jobs most vunerable to cheap immigrant labour
Hence many of these communities vote for the far right in England - which may well happen here as well in time
But of course we all know that most Irish 'Socialist' voters work for the State or are on welfare of some kind
Most of the Irish 'working classes' always voted FF
 

Truth.ie

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Was recently in a discussion with a few Labour youth guys about left wing policies/ideas. The topic of tougher immigration laws arose and the Labour guys were of the opinion, that one could not claim to be a Socialist if they favoured tough Immigration laws. How do P.ie posters view such a statement?
Absolutely, most of the Bolivarian Socialist Republics in Latin America are extremely tough on immigrants.
Migrating to Cuba is harder than entering the U.S.
In Ecuador (hard left Govt.)you can't hire foreigners unless you first hire five native citizens. Then, after that it's only 1 immigrant for every 5 citizens you've employed.
I actually think that should be brought into Ireland as well.
 
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stopdoingstuff

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Socialism has nothing to do with immigration as such. I think the "socialist" love of immigration is based on the assumption that they will get loads of votes in future because immigrants will naturally look kindly on those who are pro-immigrant. At least that is what I was told when I was in Labour youth as a kid.
 
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Truth.ie

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Socialism has nothing to do with immigration as such. I think the "socilalist" love of immigration is based on the assumption that they will get loads of votes in future because immigrants will naturally look kindly on those who are pro-immigrant. At least that is what I was told when I was in Labour youth as a kid.
Which I why I never describe myself as left wing or right wing.
 

The OD

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Was recently in a discussion with a few Labour youth guys about left wing policies/ideas. The topic of tougher immigration laws arose and the Labour guys were of the opinion, that one could not claim to be a Socialist if they favoured tough Immigration laws. How do P.ie posters view such a statement?
Why would you be discussing left wing policies with the youth wing of a party that is every-wing-as-long-as-we-elected?

Makes no sense.

Do your self a favour, avoid discussing politics, hell, anything really with 'youth wings'.
 
J

Johnny Boy

I'm not a Socialist. Having said that, Socialism is about state control of the means of production. In theory it has nothing to do with immigration. It could be argued from a Socialist perspective that to preserve the affordability of the welfare-state, immigration should be controlled. It could also be argued that open borders allow employers to drive down wages, leading to increased poverty.
Socialism and a belief in tighter immigration laws are not mutually exclusive, nor is the latter necessarily motivated by racism. Only a fool would suggest that there should be lax rules on immigration anyway. I have no issues with skin colour but I would hate to live permanently in Britain, or at least in many places south of Manchester, because of massive overcrowding. Anyone who has ever driven on British motorways and endured the regular tailbacks that British drivers accept as normal, will know what I'm talking about.
 

ffc

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Nov 6, 2007
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Its one of the rocks that destroys theoretical socialism
Their core vote is supposed to be from the working classes
But these are the jobs most vunerable to cheap immigrant labour
Hence many of these communities vote for the far right in England - which may well happen here as well in time
But of course we all know that most Irish 'Socialist' voters work for the State or are on welfare of some kind
Most of the Irish 'working classes' always voted FF
Hardly anyone votes for the far right in England, the BNP, National Front, whatever guise they take they invariably fail miserably. The Labour Party still takes the vast majority of those white english working class votes, as well as most of the new immigrants.
 
B

Boggle

Was recently in a discussion with a few Labour youth guys about left wing policies/ideas. The topic of tougher immigration laws arose and the Labour guys were of the opinion, that one could not claim to be a Socialist if they favoured tough Immigration laws. How do P.ie posters view such a statement?
Socialism requires tough immigration laws as you can only make state resources stretch so far.
 

The Owl

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Sep 11, 2011
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God's sake! First a thread where people tell fairy stories about the cops, now another one but this time the fairy tales are about socialists. Jeeeeez! Children.
 


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