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Can your Irish passport be revoked?


cantenaccio

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
26
Hypothetical scenario;passport is up for renewal in a few years,living in another EU state,when I go to renew thru the Irish embassy,can I be refused a new passport?Or is it the case that once your born in Ireland you have it for life,regardless of what you do.I understand all the rhetoric of tax exiles ect,but lets say you owe revenue 100 quid are you screwed?I'm tax compliant by the way.
 


seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
Hypothetical scenario;passport is up for renewal in a few years,living in another EU state,when I go to renew thru the Irish embassy,can I be refused a new passport?Or is it the case that once your born in Ireland you have it for life,regardless of what you do.I understand all the rhetoric of tax exiles ect,but lets say you owe revenue 100 quid are you screwed?I'm tax compliant by the way.
Irish citizens have a constitutional right to a passport.
 

kerrynorth

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
1,525
Your passport is the property of the Minister of Foreign Affairs and he certainly can withhold it from you for whatever reason. Of course you can then challenge that in the Courts. But I think being granted a passport is considered to be more a privilege of citizenship rather than an entitlement.
 

corelli

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
4,478
Irish citizens have a constitutional right to a passport.
You have a right to travel, not too sure you have a right to a passport, in exact terms. However, it's not absolute. A court can order its surrender as part of bail conditions.
 

kerrynorth

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Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
1,525
Irish citizens have a constitutional right to a passport.
Not so. It is a privilege that comes with citizenship, not an entitlement e.g. the Minister could withhold a passport from a person whom he deems to be a danger to society so that he may be better monitored on home turf.
 

seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
You have a right to travel, not too sure you have a right to a passport, in exact terms. However, it's not absolute. A court can order its surrender as part of bail conditions.
I might be wrong, but a court can't order its surrender. It can set surrender as a condition of bail, but you don't have to accept this condition. You can choose to go to jail instead of surrendering your passport.
 

kerrynorth

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Oct 5, 2005
Messages
1,525
I might be wrong, but a court can't order its surrender. It can set surrender as a condition of bail, but you don't have to accept this condition. You can choose to go to jail instead of surrendering your passport.
Of course a Court could order its surrender, whats preventing it doing so? In any case an Irish passport is the property of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, not the holder of it.
 

He3

Moderator
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
17,094
Our ability to leave the country rests in the gift of the Minister?

If you think that I recommend the fictional film on English government oppression now on TV3 V for Vendetta. Stephen Rea is one amongst an excellent cast.
 

boolavogue

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
5
If you are an Irish citizen but not born in Ireland and you relinquish your Irish citizenship for whatever reason you cannot reclaim it.
 

seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
If you are an Irish citizen but not born in Ireland and you relinquish your Irish citizenship for whatever reason you cannot reclaim it.
I believe this applies only to naturalized citizens, rather than those born abroad. Someone born to an Irish parent abroad is equal to someone born in Ireland to irish parents.
 

cantenaccio

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
26
If you are an Irish citizen but not born in Ireland and you relinquish your Irish citizenship for whatever reason you cannot reclaim it.
Assuming you don't though,you live abroad in an EU member state for 50 years,you're still Irish,you go to the embassy every 10 years a renew your passport.Even if you go down that road and naturalise in another country.Ireland allows you to adopt dual citizenship,(some European countries don't).

I'm aware that in some cases your passport can be surrendered,eg bail.But can the State fail to renew your passport,when it expires,when you reside in another jurisdiction within the EU?

On this topic,Is it possible to have no nationality?
 

Lthse

Active member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
142
Assuming you don't though,you live abroad in an EU member state for 50 years,you're still Irish,you go to the embassy every 10 years a renew your passport.Even if you go down that road and naturalise in another country.Ireland allows you to adopt dual citizenship,(some European countries don't).

I'm aware that in some cases your passport can be surrendered,eg bail.But can the State fail to renew your passport,when it expires,when you reside in another jurisdiction within the EU?
Absolutely not, you are entitled to an Irish passport as long as you are an Irish citizen.

On this topic,Is it possible to have no nationality?

It is possible to have no nationality, for example Russians born in Latvia are not automatically entitled to Latvian citizenship, and many of them travel on Latvian Alien passports and their nationality is described as 'stateless'.
 

Ah Well

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Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
1,235
The granting or withholding of an Irish Passport does not appear to come from a Statutory origin but would appear to have originally derived from the Crown prerogative: The State (M) v Attorney General [1979] IR 73, 76 per Finlay J.

The issuing of Irish passports remains subject to administrative discretion. A condition precedent for an Irish passport is Irish citizenship. But it is no longer simply a matter of executive prerogative. The above M case in 1979 acknowledged a right to travel outside the state (not necessarily to be admitted into another country) - and thus one of the unenumerated rights in article 40.3.1 of the Constitution and therefore since a passport is practically necessary for travel outside the Common Travel Area of Great Britain and Ireland (and that itself may change), a constitutional right to a passport was established. This does not preclude the withholding or withdrawal of passports in certain circumstances; see Lennon v Ganly and Fitzgerald [1981] ILRM 84 for an instance of passports not being withdrawn - Irish rugby playing in South Africa.

There does remain an administrative discretion, but it appears to be exercisable only in the interest of the public good and public order.
 

Moderate

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
55
Can someone answer me this: as far as I know, if I have British citizenship because my father was British and my kids are not born in the UK then they do not have the right to British passport. Is that the same rule with Irish passports or does the granny rule still count?
 

marmurr1916

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
386
Our ability to leave the country rests in the gift of the Minister?
Yes and no: ultimately it's a matter for the courts. There's a constitutional right for all Irish citizens to travel outside the state:

Justice Finlay in the X case:

The right to travel was identified by me in a judgment delivered when I was President of the High Court in The State (M.) v. The Attorney General [1979] I.R. 73, as an unenumerated constitutional right. That it exists as an important and, in a sense, fundamental right closely identified with the characteristics of any free society, cannot be challenged. The making of an order by way of injunction restraining a person from travelling out of the jurisdiction of the State, whether confirmed to travelling for a particular purpose or for a particular period, constitutes a major restriction of such right to travel, placing the right in actual abeyance.
However, the Minister can refuse to give someone a passport if the Minister 'decides that in the interest of public order and the common good of the State an applicant should not hold an Irish passport.'

Naturally, this decision can be challenged in the courts.
 

Ah Well

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Dec 18, 2008
Messages
1,235
Can someone answer me this: as far as I know, if I have British citizenship because my father was British and my kids are not born in the UK then they do not have the right to British passport. Is that the same rule with Irish passports or does the granny rule still count?
Anyone born in Ireland, except for children of parents holding diplomatic immunity in Ireland, are automatically granted Irish citizenship. You are also automatically considered an Irish citizen if you are born outside of Ireland to a mother or father who was born in Ireland.

The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act of 1956 provides that certain persons born outside of Ireland may claim Irish citizenship by descent.Anyone born outside Ireland whose grandmother or grandfather, but not his or her parents, were born in Ireland may become an Irish citizen by registering in the Irish Foreign Births Register (FBR) at the Department of Foreign Affairs in Dublin or at the nearest Irish Embassy or Consular Office.

There are also certain limited circumstances where you may be eligible to obtain Irish citizenship through your great-grandmother or great-grandfather. This can be a bit complicated, but basically if your great-grandparent was born in Ireland and your parent used that relationship to register as an Irish Citizen by Descent by the time of your birth, then you are also eligible to register for Irish citizenship. Citizenship by descent is not automatic and must be acquired through application.
 

Odyessus

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Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
12,987
Our ability to leave the country rests in the gift of the Minister?

If you think that I recommend the fictional film on English government oppression now on TV3 V for Vendetta. Stephen Rea is one amongst an excellent cast.

Our ability to leave the country rests in the gift of the Minister?


You don't technically need a passport to leave the state; you will probably need one however to be admitted to another state.
 

Lthse

Active member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
142
Anyone born in Ireland, except for children of parents holding diplomatic immunity in Ireland, are automatically granted Irish citizenship. You are also automatically considered an Irish citizen if you are born outside of Ireland to a mother or father who was born in Ireland.
This was overturned by the last referendum on the issue, it's now the case that children born in Ireland are only granted Irish citizenship if they have an Irish parent or grandparent (I think). If they are children of foreign parents they are only granted citizenship if they do not qualify for another citizenship. There are also provisions for children of parents who are several years resident in the state.

Being born in Ireland no longer automatically grants Irish citizenship.
 

corelli

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Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
4,478
Anyone born in Ireland, except for children of parents holding diplomatic immunity in Ireland, are automatically granted Irish citizenship. You are also automatically considered an Irish citizen if you are born outside of Ireland to a mother or father who was born in Ireland.

The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act of 1956 provides that certain persons born outside of Ireland may claim Irish citizenship by descent.Anyone born outside Ireland whose grandmother or grandfather, but not his or her parents, were born in Ireland may become an Irish citizen by registering in the Irish Foreign Births Register (FBR) at the Department of Foreign Affairs in Dublin or at the nearest Irish Embassy or Consular Office.

There are also certain limited circumstances where you may be eligible to obtain Irish citizenship through your great-grandmother or great-grandfather. This can be a bit complicated, but basically if your great-grandparent was born in Ireland and your parent used that relationship to register as an Irish Citizen by Descent by the time of your birth, then you are also eligible to register for Irish citizenship. Citizenship by descent is not automatic and must be acquired through application.
Don't mean to burst your bubble but you do remember the Citizenship Referendum?

It's no longer sufficient to be merely born here, at least one of your parents must have been legally resident in the jurisdiction for the preceding, two? years.
 

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