Carbon Tax Proposals - Green stupidity or insanity?

nuj

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From p99 of the 4-year plan - one of the aims of which is to restore competitiveness:

"It is proposed that over the period of this Plan the price of carbon will be doubled to €30 per tonne thereby contributing €330 million to the overall correction. This will entail a €10 per tonne increase in 2012 and a further €5 per tonne in 2014.
Carbon taxes will be a feature of economies across the world in the coming years. At a time when national Budgets are under pressure, it makes sense to choose tax options that can have external benefits such as reducing import dependency, reducing emissions and driving innovation.
A rate of €30 per tonne at the end of four years confirms Ireland’s commitment to pricing carbon at a rate that can have positive and lasting domestic benefits and contribute to lowering Ireland’s share of global emissions that remain a risk to future generations.
Action Points
􀂃
The price of carbon will be doubled over four years.
􀂃
The price will be progressively increased from €15 to €30 per tonne.
􀂃
These measures will yield €330 million."


The market price for Emission Reduction Units for 1 tonne of carbon is currently around €12/13. Taking as a given that "a tonne of carbon is a tonne of carbon anywhere (whether produced or abated)" what are the Greens doing landing the Irish taxpayer with a cost over twice that of the current abatement cost.

Loony fringe "damn the recession, we'll leave our economically-illiterate environmental mark", or cynical dress-up of tax in touchy-feely clothing?

Can't wait for their canvassers. If they have any.
 


nuj

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Bump
 

drummed

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In fairness the eco-mentalists are having an effect, it's -9 here and i'm snowed in in november, guess i'll have to buy a land rover.
 

goosebump

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The market price for Emission Reduction Units for 1 tonne of carbon is currently around €12/13. Taking as a given that "a tonne of carbon is a tonne of carbon anywhere (whether produced or abated)" what are the Greens doing landing the Irish taxpayer with a cost over twice that of the current abatement cost.

Loony fringe "damn the recession, we'll leave our economically-illiterate environmental mark", or cynical dress-up of tax in touchy-feely clothing?

Can't wait for their canvassers. If they have any.
1. The doubling of the rate doesn't occur until year 4, at which point the emissions price will be just as high.

2. Its a discretionary tax (it can be avoided) where as other taxes, like income tax, or VAT, can not. Discretionary taxes will always trump non-discretionary taxes when you need economic growth.

3. The current carbon tax has had no impact on growth. Our manufacturing and export sector have continued to grow despite its introduction.

4. The appear to be a lot of idiots around tonight, so just to preempt them: the carbon tax is not levied on utilities like electricity and gas.
 

goosebump

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In fairness the eco-mentalists are having an effect, it's -9 here and i'm snowed in in november, guess i'll have to buy a land rover.
What is the weather normally like in winter where you live? A balmy 23'C?
 

H

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Carbon tax is a typical stealth tax beloved by stupid idiots, morons, and the vilest of the vile Green whackjobs that have aided and abetted the FFer's into driving this country into the ground

Needless to say joke carbon taxes hurt the poorest and the most needy in society who the sleazy Greens and their disciples are so happy to inflict pain on. Carbon taxes are non-avoidable as all producers and suppliers who pay them will pass their increased costs onwards, and in a recession!

Carbon taxes crucify the poor and vulnerable old folk who live in remote areas and are dependent on carbon-based fuels to travel and warm their homes. The old and poor are more likely to die of a disease caused by fuel poverty by living in cold, damp houses due to unaffordable heating

What sort of a scumm mind set insists on punishing the most vulnerable in our society by creating artificially high fuel prices to deliberateley hurt the poor, the sick and the isolated elderly. Why the sleazy Green party FFers of course! You just need to look at the damage they created in government.

This tax must be abandoned.
 

nuj

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1. The doubling of the rate doesn't occur until year 4, at which point the emissions price will be just as high.

2. Its a discretionary tax (it can be avoided) where as other taxes, like income tax, or VAT, can not. Discretionary taxes will always trump non-discretionary taxes when you need economic growth.

3. The current carbon tax has had no impact on growth. Our manufacturing and export sector have continued to grow despite its introduction.

4. The appear to be a lot of idiots around tonight, so just to preempt them: the carbon tax is not levied on utilities like electricity and gas.
1. *snort* - should we use the bailout money to buy carbon credits, and make a profit out of the deal?

2. *snigger* - are you a woolly jumper salesman?

3. *fnarr* - is there any difference in your world between "current" and "prospective"? And what's happened our growth since the introduction of carbon taxes? (I'd not be so stupid as to blame them for the decline, but I wouldn't be so stupid as to assert a zero impact).

4. *arf* - how true.

GB, that's one of your worst ever efforts.
 

nuj

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GB - just did a little work on your forecast doubling of the market price of carbon in the next 4 years. It'll give a compound annual return of 18.92%! Maybe we should borrow even more money from our "partners" to avail of this once-in-a-lifetime investment opportunity.

Any views?
 

nuj

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Hello? Any views, I said...
 

daveL

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if the proceeds are ringfenced and reinvested back into green tech, renewable techs and retro fitting people's homes then it's a good thing

If it goes to propping up AIB or Herr Goldslinger in Frankfurt's bond yields then no, it's not a good thing.

In summary; no it's not a good thing. It's a sham.
 

QuizMaster

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If we are ever to climb out of this hole it will be by doing things differently.
Perhaps we can become a global centre of excellence in renewable energy, exporting both the energy itself and the innovative technology.

Well it's worth suggesting. Unless of course you prefer to deny the science of climate change.
 

QuizMaster

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To the OP: That is what is known as a false dichotomy. Or in simpler terms those aren't the only two options.

Are you thick as well as ugly, or just ugly? You see I did it there again as another example.
 

GreenIsGood

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To the OP: That is what is known as a false dichotomy. Or in simpler terms those aren't the only two options.

Are you thick as well as ugly, or just ugly? You see I did it there again as another example.
Nasty. But we are used to nastiness from greenies.

Greens have shown themselves to be:

  • scientific illiterates
  • financial illiterates
  • members of a sick doomsday cult that despises humanity
  • power-crazed loons convinced of their own superiority

I despise everything these dirtbags represent.
 

drummed

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If we are ever to climb out of this hole it will be by doing things differently.
Perhaps we can become a global centre of excellence in renewable energy, exporting both the energy itself and the innovative technology.

Well it's worth suggesting. Unless of course you prefer to deny the science of climate change.
Evidence? Have your been outside today?
It's normally about 6-8 here for goose's information. Curious how "global warming" has become "climate change", no matter what happens the greens are covered. Every weather event is evidence of climate change now.
Carbon tax is not discretionary, not if you live in a rural area or are involved in agriculture. What do the greens suggest we use instead of oil? Not everyone can take the bus, many seem to forget this. Just another insidious tax grabbing exercise that is unfair and pointless. This had has a very negative effect on agriculture which is supposed to be one of the greens growth area's in the economy. Greenism is'nt a science, it's a religion, or cult more like which insist's we all follow the dictats of the few hundred irish members. Resist.
 

nuj

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QM - maybe you could address the content of the OP rather than its headline.

I see you suggest "doing things differently" to get us out of this hole. Why not treble the tax, or quadruple it, then? That'd be different.
 

goosebump

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Carbon tax is not discretionary, not if you live in a rural area or are involved in agriculture. What do the greens suggest we use instead of oil?
Of course its discretionary. Nobody is forced by law to live in a rural area, or drive a certain type of car. You are forced by law to pay income tax.

It might not be a 'convenient' tax, but something does not need to be convenient to be discretionary.

This had has a very negative effect on agriculture which is supposed to be one of the greens growth area's in the economy.
The carbon tax has added less than half to the price of fuel than was added by the most recent recent in excise duty.

Greenism is'nt a science
That the earth's resources are finite, and that the population of the earth is increasing, are incontrovertible facts, although I have no doubt that some posters will contest this.
 

PAD1OH

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Nasty. But we are used to nastiness from greenies.

Greens have shown themselves to be:

  • scientific illiterates
  • financial illiterates
  • members of a sick doomsday cult that despises humanity
  • power-crazed loons convinced of their own superiority

I despise everything these dirtbags represent.

tough.
 

Expose the lot of them

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The appear to be a lot of idiots around tonight, so just to preempt them: the carbon tax is not levied on utilities like electricity and gas.
What was the tax they introduced last year that resulted in an increase in the price of coal, briquettes, heating oil, gas, etc. What was the tax that led to an increase in the price of petrol and diesel? Those those were carbon taxes.

You know the one the Gormless promised would be alleviated for the poor and vulnerable with a payment to offset it and then renaged on that.
 


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