Carol Nolan quits Sinn Fein after she opposed party's policy on abortion

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McTell

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Carol Nolan quits Sinn Fein after she opposed party's policy on abortion//
I will do whatever I can to help get Carol re-elected in the next General Election.

That's funny, I thought sinn fein was all about the undead, not the unborn. Both ends of the candle now.
 


GDPR

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Sinn Fein got MPs elected as the brit army was being smashed up the same as English city’s- 20 years into the peace-process more and more are respecting that past that makes for a bright future-
SF has got the exact right thing in Mary Lou, because she is the one that will take the middle class women with her.

That geometric bob alone is a vote winner.

Adams and McGuinness played the long game, and they played it so well, it will take another generation before people actually realise what they achieved.
 

mr_anderson

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You really have to be a complete numbskull to resign over an issue that was not just decided by referendum, but passed by a 2:1 margin.

That takes a special kind of crazy.
 

robra

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Politicians work for us not the other way around....

We made a decision now they need to get on with it.......if they find they are unable they should follow Nolans example and stand down....
No one is suggesting that they are anti-democratic. The issue is religious tolerance. Should TD's be allowed a free vote when it comes to issues of religion or conscience. In a modern civilized tolerant party I think it's reasonable to allow a free vote.
 

robra

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What moral issues? SF is not a Catholic party, it is a Republican party.

She can join the SDLP if she identifies with Catholic morality.

Looks its simple. If you cant accept the party line, leave. She has done it, good on her. May her faith sustain her.
Nor is it a Jewish or Muslim party! However, if muslim members of your party requested that they vote in line with their religion surely in a tolerant party that would be acceptable. Why would you force someone to vote against their religion or conscience?
 

robra

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You really have to be a complete numbskull to resign over an issue that was not just decided by referendum, but passed by a 2:1 margin.

That takes a special kind of crazy.
Would you expect a Jewish or Muslim member to vote to ban circumcision if the majority of the party wanted that?
Would you expect a Muslim to vote for legislation that goes totally against their beliefs? Not really very tolerant is it?
This is not just some mundane day to day issue it's an issue that is affected by some peoples religious beliefs.
Also in practical terms why not just allow her to abstain? Why force her to vote for something she finds abhorrent? Also, everyone knows that it will pass and she does not have an issue with the democratic process or outcome she has an issue with being forced to vote for something.
 

Cruimh

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There's no doubt that the High Heid-Yins of SF were aware that it was contentious. Years ago I checked the Party Position with the ard ri - then Robbie Smyth - after Martin McGuinness spoke on the issue on UTV.

Should People like Nolan have been in SF? Well, as it was unlikely there would be a vote on abortion itself until recently, I'd suggest that while it might have been uncomfortable under the past stance, it wasn't likely to matter until things changed and the policy was changed* and I'd say the reality is that in effect they will be asked to vote for abortion on demand.

*2015 Ard fheis

After 2015 the writing was on the wall - will Peadar Tóibín stay?
 

robra

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SF has got the exact right thing in Mary Lou, because she is the one that will take the middle class women with her.

That geometric bob alone is a vote winner.

Adams and McGuinness played the long game, and they played it so well, it will take another generation before people actually realise what they achieved.

I have a lot of respect for Adam and McG and I agree with what you say in general but on this issue SF have made a major mistake and one that is so needless. This will drive a lot of more conservative and religious people away from SF. SF is supposed to be a republican party not an identity politics party. SF ha a serious problem when it comes to potential votes, it has the highest toxicity rating by far, that will only increase with actions like this. It completely plays into the hands of the MSM and the portrayal of SF as a totalitarian party.
 

GDPR

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I have a lot of respect for Adam and McG and I agree with what you say in general but on this issue SF have made a major mistake and one that is so needless. This will drive a lot of more conservative and religious people away from SF. SF is supposed to be a republican party not an identity politics party. SF ha a serious problem when it comes to potential votes, it has the highest toxicity rating by far, that will only increase with actions like this. It completely plays into the hands of the MSM and the portrayal of SF as a totalitarian party.
Nope they are on the right side of this one.

Now take your totalitarian hog wash elsewhere. You will have totally forgotten her name in two weeks.
 

sadmal

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No one is suggesting that they are anti-democratic. The issue is religious tolerance. Should TD's be allowed a free vote when it comes to issues of religion or conscience. In a modern civilized tolerant party I think it's reasonable to allow a free vote.
If it had been left to some TD's there would never have been a referendum at all as they all opposed holding it.
Should TD's be allowed to vote with their conscience if their conscience prohibits the public from using their conscience to decide on an issue?
 

robra

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Nope they are on the right side of this one.

Now take your totalitarian hog wash elsewhere. You will have totally forgotten her name in two weeks.
Her name is irrelevant what's relevant is SF's reputation and vote share. This needless action will driver people away from SF.
 

Goa Tse

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Well if she joins Renua they'll have a TD!

Shouldn't be giving 'em ideas :p
 

GDPR

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Her name is irrelevant what's relevant is SF's reputation and vote share. This needless action will driver people away from SF.
In yer hole, dear boy, if SF is still getting votes with their history, she is just a footnote.
 

robra

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If it had been left to some TD's there would never have been a referendum at all as they all opposed holding it.
Should TD's be allowed to vote with their conscience if their conscience prohibits the public from using their conscience to decide on an issue?

Yes. That's what happens in all grown up parties around the world. Take the Iraq war as an example, the Labour Party, Tories, liberals etc all allowed a free vote because obviously there are pacifists in parties and you can't force them to vote against their morals regardless of the views of their constituents. Furthermore you'll end up driving members out of the party when they agree with the party on 99% of other issues.
 

gerhard dengler

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Sinn Fein scored their own own goal. They could have allowed their TD's a free vote on the issue.
 

Cruimh

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Her name is irrelevant what's relevant is SF's reputation and vote share. This needless action will driver people away from SF.
Probably less significant in the ROI than In NI - and the ROI has priority.

And even then - just remember how Gerry McGeough did in elections where he highlighted the weakening of Rosary Bead Republicanism in Sinn Féin.
 
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