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BlowIn

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Apr 17, 2009
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263
I knew it......now if we can just have our health minister tested please.

I know its bad taste, I'm going to ban myself for a few days.
 

Cruimh

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Apr 30, 2010
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83,450
Caster Semenya expected to be affected by IAAF rule changes

What is the history of gender testing?

Helen Stephens (left) and Stella Walsh
German officials examined Helen Stephens (left) before the Games and declared her female; an autopsy of Stella Walsh 40 years later revealed she had ambiguous genitalia.

1936: Polish runner Stella Walsh and America's Helen Stephens are accused of being male imposters during the Berlin Olympics.
1938: German high jumper Dora Ratjen is identified as male, and Germany return the gold medal won at the European Championship. Der Spiegel wrote in 2009 that Ratjen was born with ambiguous genitalia and was raised as a girl at the suggestion of a midwife.
1968: International Olympic Committee begin comprehensive "gender testing".
1972-1984: 13 women "fail" gender tests.
1985: Spanish hurdler Maria Jose Martinez-Patino is told her chromosome test is abnormal. Martinez-Patino refuses to quit or feign injury, and further investigation reveals that a genetic condition meant she was insensitive to testosterone that was in her blood.
2009: Caster Semenya is asked to take a gender test and the results are reported in the media.
2014: Dutee Chand is banned from competing after results of a gender test.
2015: Chand has her ban overturned and the IAAF rules requiring female athletes to take testosterone-suppressing medication are suspended for two years.
 

mr_anderson

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Dec 12, 2007
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9,843
It's an interesting case.
According to reports [...] the medical tests have established that she has no womb or ovaries and that she also has internal testes – the male sexual organs responsible for producing testosterone.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/o...er-Semenya-is-a-hermaphrodite-tests-show.html

Apparently she has 3 times the amount of testosterone in her system.
This gives her a proven advantage over other female athletes.

It showed those with naturally high-occurring testosterone levels enjoyed an advantage of between 1.8 and 4.5 per cent over their rivals.

In the 800metres, Semenya’s No1 event, the advantage was 1.8 per cent while over 400m athletes were able to go 2.7 per cent faster.
In order to counter this natural advantage, the IAAF ruling will force Caster Semenya to take testosterone-suppressant drugs.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/ia...-reduce-her-testosterone-levels-a3823181.html


I'm no endocrinologist, but given she has had 3 times the testosterone since birth, her muscles will be far better developed than any female athlete could hope to achieve.
Will taking testosterone suppressants now really make much of a difference ?
 

fat finger

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Oct 22, 2016
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No way. No way Semenya is a woman. The world is being duped. If it looks like a man, runs like a man and sounds like a man - it's a man. End that nonsense now!
 

brigg

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Mar 8, 2009
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574
BBC news reporter just gave her ridiculous praise. No impartiality whatsoever. Amazing achievements... An inspiration... fought so hard ...doesn't deserve this.

I could respect her if she took suppressants and had to work harder to maintain her success, but to refuse suppressants is a two fingers to other athletes.
She almost certainly has an advantage over other women, albeit through no fault of her own.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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If her testosterone levels are natural, then she should be allowed to compete.

Basketball players have high levels of growth hormones, sprinters have abnormally effective twitch muscles. There are always going to be outliers, it's not (paradoxically) unusual.
 

Lagertha

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This athlete poses in extremely masculine poses for photographs and is physically stronger than other competitors. He has male and female organs and has won all 29 of his races, he could compete in mens competitions but chooses to race against women because he knows he'll win, I doubt he'd win against men. It is disgraceful that female competitors were so badly treated by having to run against a man with no chance at all that they would win, not only that but if they complained about it they would have been targeted by people claiming they were bad people. If it walks like a duck and quacks, he's a hermaphrodite, he's neither one nor the other and if he wants to compete in sports let him compete against men where he won't have an unfair advantage.
 

silverharp

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making testosterone levels the decider of gender is a nonsense which allows men to compete in women's events. Caster is XY so shouldnt be allowed run in female events on that basis
 

Lagertha

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making testosterone levels the decider of gender is a nonsense which allows men to compete in women's events. Caster is XY so shouldnt be allowed run in female events on that basis
Nonsense, the guy is clearly more male than female. The only reason that he doesn't compete as a man is because he isn't good enough to win against men. He is a man and he shouldn't be allowed to compete in women's competitions. It's absurd and all it does is highlight the fact that women's sports are being set back 50 years, allowing men to dictate to women. Some fools won't be happy until female sports are dominated by hermaphrodites or men who identify as women in order to win.
 

silverharp

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Nonsense, the guy is clearly more male than female. The only reason that he doesn't compete as a man is because he isn't good enough to win against men. He is a man and he shouldn't be allowed to compete in women's competitions. It's absurd and all it does is highlight the fact that women's sports are being set back 50 years, allowing men to dictate to women. Some fools won't be happy until female sports are dominated by hermaphrodites or men who identify as women in order to win.
why did you say nonsense? i said for sports events women should be required to be XX , Caster is XY so isnt a woman . IF Caster was XX but had unusual naturally occurring high testosterone for whatever reason, they would still be a woman and should be allowed to run, they are just an outlier so good luck to them. every unbeatable athlete is a genetic outlier
 

Lagertha

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why did you say nonsense? i said for sports events women should be required to be XX , Caster is XY so isnt a woman . IF Caster was XX but had unusual naturally occurring high testosterone for whatever reason, they would still be a woman and should be allowed to run, they are just an outlier so good luck to them. every unbeatable athlete is a genetic outlier
A hermaphrodite is neither male nor female, he should not be allowed to compete in female sports. What you call a genetic outlier I call a freak of nature, no different really to a calf being born with 2 heads.
 

fat finger

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A hermaphrodite is neither male nor female, he should not be allowed to compete in female sports. What you call a genetic outlier I call a freak of nature, no different really to a calf being born with 2 heads.
Semenya does not even qualify as hermaphrodite. He is clearly a man - talks like a man, runs like a man, looks like a man. It's quite possible the genitalia were removed early on to make him believe he's female, because he gives every impression of genuinely believing himself a woman, but to everyone else he's clearly a man, he's being used by the 'oppressed minorities' mob who keep trying to tell us only oppressed people can define their victimhood, that's it not down to the wider community or - heaven forfend - their oppressors
 

Dame_Enda

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As far as we know. Caster is a natural woman but according to wikipedia may have been born intersex. It does not seem she had any gender reassignment operations.
 

Orbit v2

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Semenya does not even qualify as hermaphrodite. He is clearly a man - talks like a man, runs like a man, looks like a man. It's quite possible the genitalia were removed early on to make him believe he's female, because he gives every impression of genuinely believing himself a woman, but to everyone else he's clearly a man, he's being used by the 'oppressed minorities' mob who keep trying to tell us only oppressed people can define their victimhood, that's it not down to the wider community or - heaven forfend - their oppressors
That's not true. She apparently has testes internally and that's common with this intersex "disorder". She would have appeared to be female when born and presumably only at puberty began to develop more like a man. It's awful to be talking about someone in terms like this, when she is blameless, but I have to agree with the idea that nobody with a Y chromosome should be allowed to compete as a woman. It's hard on these people, but they are a tiny minority compared to the entire population of women who play sport.
 

Lagertha

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As far as we know. Caster is a natural woman but according to wikipedia may have been born intersex. It does not seem she had any gender reassignment operations.
When I look at him I see a man, I'm not going to pretend that the Emperor is wearing clothes.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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That's not true. She apparently has testes internally and that's common with this intersex "disorder". She would have appeared to be female when born and presumably only at puberty began to develop more like a man. It's awful to be talking about someone in terms like this, when she is blameless, but I have to agree with the idea that nobody with a Y chromosome should be allowed to compete as a woman. It's hard on these people, but they are a tiny minority compared to the entire population of women who play sport.
I agree.

I was not aware until today that she may have XY chromosomes. If that is the case then she should not be allowed to compete against women will the normal XX.

I agree that it's hard on her (and I am happy to call her "her"), but that would be an important factor for me.
 

Lagertha

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I agree.

I was not aware until today that she may have XY chromosomes. If that is the case then she should not be allowed to compete against women will the normal XX.

I agree that it's hard on her (and I am happy to call her "her"), but that would be an important factor for me.
I think most people are fine with referring to the person by the pronoun they choose to identify with, but when that person is clearly a man, who is competing in women's sports because he has a biological advantage over the actual female competitors to the extent that he wins every single race then it's time to call it out as what it is, cheating. He is a man, I don't care if he identifies as the Queen mother, he's a man, end of and he should be competing in male events against men.
 

cunnyfunt

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I think most people are fine with referring to the person by the pronoun they choose to identify with, but when that person is clearly a man, who is competing in women's sports because he has a biological advantage over the actual female competitors to the extent that he wins every single race then it's time to call it out as what it is, cheating. He is a man, I don't care if he identifies as the Queen mother, he's a man, end of and he should be competing in male events against men.
Before too long....Some men with bolls are going to stand up to this perversion of facts and restore sanity.
 

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