Castlepollard Exclusion From Commission on Mother and Baby Homes INQUIRY. (Second Thread)

StarryPlough01

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I heard they took the kids while they playing in the street where they lived !! I have great respect for Dr Sarah Anne Buckley's work.

Dr Buckley is against the government's plan to seal for 75 years the records of the Ryan Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, the Residential Institutions Redress Board, and Residential Institutions Redress Review Committee.

I have wondered if the sealing of the records is also linked to the undertaking given after the legal challenge by Christian Brothers to not name the abusers, despite the overwhelming evidence of their crimes. We don't know if the abusers were in charge of the residential schools... or who were the other protected parties.


Then came Minister for Education Michael Woods' SECRET indemnity deal with the 138 religious organisations ~~~


churchandstate.org.uk/2013/05/child-abuse-scandal-how-the-irish-government-protected-the-catholic-church/



"
In the event ‘no naming and shaming’ was followed by the revelation of a further twisting of the knife. An ‘indemnity deal’ had been signed between two representatives of the Conference of Religious of Ireland (CORI), an umbrella group representing 138 religious congregations, on behalf of eighteen religious orders that had run the residential institutions, and the then Minister of Education, Michael Woods."

I will read the book. Thank you.
 


StarryPlough01

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'Cardinal George Pell’s appeal to be live-streamed from Victorian Supreme Court' [next Wednesday]

3:42pm May 30, 2019



By Freya Noble


Pell is appealing his conviction for sexually abusing two Melbourne choirboys in the 1990s. If the conviction is upheld he won’t seek a reduced sentence.
 

StarryPlough01

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3 Judges will hear George Pell's Appeal against the Jury Conviction

May 30, 2019 — 4.42pm


By Adam Cooper

"The Court of Appeal has also acknowledged the high interest that will accompany Pell's legal challenge and plans to livestream next week's hearing on the Supreme Court's website. The hearing is due to run all day Wednesday and continue into Thursday.

"The camera will be focused solely on the three Court of Appeal justices, even when the lawyers are talking.

….

"Supreme Court Chief Justice Anne Ferguson will hear Pell's appeal along with Justice Chris Maxwell, the president of the Court of Appeal, and Justice Mark Weinber
 
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StarryPlough01

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Now that high profile George Pell has been given leave to appeal his conviction... What will happen next?



George Pell appeal: Everything you need to know


May 31 2019 - 11:30AM


Jolyon Attwooll


Will George Pell be there?


It is unsure whether George Pell will be there in person, but it is highly likely he will be following proceedings personally, possibly via video link from where he is currently in custody.

What are the likely outcomes?

The Office of Public Prosecutions website outline three possibilities for an appeal hearing. They are that judges:


Give a decision and the reasons for it on the day of the hearing

Give a decision on the day of the hearing and give reasons a later date

Reserve a decision and the reasons for it until a later date.

However, the decision on whether the appeal is upheld or dismissed is unlikely to be made public next week, particularly given the high-profile nature of the case.

It is possible a date for the decision will be set in advance. Sometimes the appeals process can take months. However, the most likely outcome is a decision a few weeks after the hearing, most likely before the end of June.



Survivors, stay strong.
 

Catahualpa

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Now that high profile George Pell has been given leave to appeal his conviction... What will happen next?



George Pell appeal: Everything you need to know


May 31 2019 - 11:30AM


Jolyon Attwooll


Will George Pell be there?


It is unsure whether George Pell will be there in person, but it is highly likely he will be following proceedings personally, possibly via video link from where he is currently in custody.

What are the likely outcomes?

The Office of Public Prosecutions website outline three possibilities for an appeal hearing. They are that judges:





However, the decision on whether the appeal is upheld or dismissed is unlikely to be made public next week, particularly given the high-profile nature of the case.

It is possible a date for the decision will be set in advance. Sometimes the appeals process can take months. However, the most likely outcome is a decision a few weeks after the hearing, most likely before the end of June.



Survivors, stay strong.
HE IS AN INNOCENT MAN WRONGLY CONVICTED!

RELEASE CARDINAL PELL NOW!
 

Catahualpa

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I heard they took the kids while they playing in the street where they lived !! I have great respect for Dr Sarah Anne Buckley's work.

Dr Buckley is against the government's plan to seal for 75 years the records of the Ryan Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, the Residential Institutions Redress Board, and Residential Institutions Redress Review Committee.

I have wondered if the sealing of the records is also linked to the undertaking given after the legal challenge by Christian Brothers to not name the abusers, despite the overwhelming evidence of their crimes. We don't know if the abusers were in charge of the residential schools... or who were the other protected parties.


Then came Minister for Education Michael Woods' SECRET indemnity deal with the 138 religious organisations ~~~


churchandstate.org.uk/2013/05/child-abuse-scandal-how-the-irish-government-protected-the-catholic-church/



"


I will read the book. Thank you.
I heard they took the kids while they playing in the street where they lived !!

Who did?
 

StarryPlough01

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Dr Sarah Jane Buckley NUIG

Re my introductory paragraph related to respected historian Dr Sarah Jane Buckley's research on the Cruelty Man - National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) inspectors. Yes [AFFIRMATIVE], as Dr Buckley's research has verified, the committal forms found the child[ren] "WANDERING" outside their home on the street where they lived, not having any visible means of subsistence.

I have also heard this from survivors testimony. - the children got placed in hellholes such as Goldenbridge Industrial School until their 16th birthday.

There's been a lot on this - tv programmes, etc.

______________

Is that you Catal? Welcome back wanderer / the 'prodigal son' returns home - [my brother] was lost and is found - the fattened calf has been killed... <wink>
 

StarryPlough01

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Its a Novel IIRC?

And therefore Not a work of History!

Incorrect. Dr Sarah Jane Buckley is a Lecturer in History at NUIG.

Why don't you look up this scholarly work?


#1368 - My reply to you ~
 

StarryPlough01

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The 3 conservative Court of Appeal judges presiding over George Pell's bid to overturn the Jury's Guilty verdict


(1) Chief Justice Anne Ferguson



Early life

Ferguson was educated at the Brigidine Sisters’ Killester College in Springvale where she was academic dux
. She studied Arts and Law at Monash University, winning the Supreme Court Prize as the top student in her graduating class.[1] Ferguson was also appointed Editor of the Monash University Law Review.[2]

In 1989, she graduated with a Doctor of Philosophy in Law from the University of Southampton. Her thesis was on unfair contracts.[3]


Justice Anne Ferguson is married to fellow Judge Kim Hargrave




(2) Court President Justice Chris Maxwell


Christopher Murray Maxwell AC[1] is an Australian jurist. He succeeded Justice John Winneke as President of the Victorian Court of Appeal on 16 July 2005.

Career

Maxwell was educated at Melbourne Grammar School and the University of Melbourne where he was resident at Trinity College.

….

Maxwell is married with three children. His wife is a daughter of the former Governor-General of Australia and High Court Justice Sir Ninian Stephen.


Starry:

Judge Chris Maxwell's father-in-law is Sir Ninian Stephen

Sir Ninian Stephen

Early life

Stephen was born in Nettlebed, Oxfordshire, England, to Scottish parents, Barbara (née Cruickshank) and Frederick Brown Stephen. His father, a poultry farmer and ex-soldier, deserted the family shortly after his birth, moving to Canada and starting a new family; his son was told that he had died, and did not learn the truth until 2003. Stephen's mother was a paid companion for Nina Mylne, the wealthy heiress of the Queensland pastoralist Graham Mylne; his given name was in her honour. During his early childhood, the three of them lived for periods in Switzerland (Geneva, where he was christened), France (Paris, Cannes, and Saint-Cast-le-Guildo) and Germany (Wiesbaden). They eventually moved to Edinburgh in 1929 so Stephen could begin his formal schooling.[2]

Mylne paid for Stephen's education, which took place in Scotland (George Watson's College and Edinburgh Academy), London (St Paul's School), and Switzerland (Chillon College, Montreux). He and Mylne generally travelled together, while his mother remained in Scotland and ran a boardinghouse. In 1940, the three of them moved to Australia to avoid the war. They settled in Melbourne and Stephen attended Scotch College for two terms, and was then accepted into the University of Melbourne to study law.[2][3]


And


(3) Justice Mark Weinberg


 
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StarryPlough01

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George Pell


The 3 Court of Appeal Judges have reserved their decision...


5 & 6 June 2019 hearings



Thu 6 Jun 2019 11.38 AEST Last modified on Thu 6 Jun 2019 13.53 AEST


by Melissa Davey


Prosecution Submission:


The jury were entitled to accept the complainant as a reliable and credible witness,” the submission states. “He was skilfully cross-examined for two days by a very experienced member of senior counsel. The complainant’s allegations were not improbable when all of the evidence is carefully considered.”​
Improbability was a significant point of discussion on Wednesday when the hearing began, with Pell’s lawyers led by Bret Walker SC arguing that the offending was not only improbable, but impossible. It led to a discussion between Maxwell and Walker as to what determined impossibility.​
It was “literally impossible” for the boys to have been abused, Walker told the court. But prosecutors argue that various witnesses at the trial established there was “more than ample opportunity and circumstances for the offending”.​
....​



7:49pm Jun 6, 2019


By Tim RoseEliza Rugg


At one point, Mr Boyce was left visibly shaken after he inadvertently mentioned the victim's name, which is suppressed.
A live stream of the appeal is running on the Supreme Court website on a 15-second delay. The feed was muted and the victim's name was not broadcast.​


Starry:

Prosecutor Mr Boyce was handling a document when he mentioned the victim by name. The proceedings were being broadcast around the globe (open justice). It is against the law in State of Victoria to name a sexual assault victim.


Continuing...

Justice Weinberg:
"I have said previously in judgments that juries almost always get it right," Justice Weinberg said at one point this afternoon.​
"But the word is almost."​



'Judges weighing up appeal after Pell's victim named in court gaffe'

June 6, 2019 — 5.52pm

Video clip - worth watching herein



By Adam Cooper


The oral submissions made by Mr Boyce and Pell's new lawyer, Bret Walker, SC, will form only part of the appeal.​
Justice Ferguson and colleagues Chris Maxwell and Mark Weinberg have already read the transcripts, watched footage of the victim's evidence, toured the cathedral and looked at the exhibits.​
….​
Jurors were open to find a verdict of guilty, the prosecutor said, because they believed the victim's evidence during eight or nine hours of cross-examination by Pell's trial lawyer, Robert Richter, QC.​
….​
On other points Mr Boyce deferred judges' questions to being a "quintessential matter for the jury".​


Starry:

The media have been in overdrive to make up a story. A lot of the coverage has been extremely negative.

Journo Melissa Davey (see below url) said Justice Chris Maxwell dominated the questioning. Judge Maxwell put the question to Boyce it was "wildly improbable" that someone of George Pell's height and stature would not have been seen approaching two choirboys. Boyce was asked why Pell would abuse those choristers in a place with many potential witnesses?


Jesus, I can't believe the judge's questions, but Maxwell thought he needed to go there. Justice Maxwell should read the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse released last year. He should also look up the Ryan Report. I have a new thread titled:

"Breaking... Who Pressured The Irish Times To Make * Revisions * Herein To Justice Sean Ryan's Inconvenient Truth?" that might possibly be of assistance.


It's about abuse of power - Chief Judge of the County Court of Victoria Peter Kidd devoted a whole section on this - "Breach of Trust and Abuse of Power" - in his sentencing document on Pell.
 

StarryPlough01

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Do you know when a verdict is expected?

The judges didn't say when they would hand down their reasoned decision.

It could be a few weeks to a few months. I think it's more likely to be the end of June mark.
 

StarryPlough01

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PS

You might want to read this article. I placed the link in the wrong spot in my race to bring everyone up to speed.

George Pell's lawyer tells appeal court judges child sex abuse offences 'realistically impossible'

Updated Wed at 10:11pm


By court reporter Emma Younger and staff
 

Catahualpa

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PS

You might want to read this article. I placed the link in the wrong spot in my race to bring everyone up to speed.

George Pell's lawyer tells appeal court judges child sex abuse offences 'realistically impossible'

Updated Wed at 10:11pm


By court reporter Emma Younger and staff
You must admit it is one of the most bizarre trials in modern Common Law

There is not a shred of evidence to show that Cardinal Pell abused this individual
 

StarryPlough01

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What's up with Judge Chris Maxwell's question to Prosecutor Boyce?

I'm concerned about the questions to Prosecutor Boyce (see my above post about Melissa Davey's article).

I'm not one to fall into that trap - George Pell was in the sacristy (as described by the victim). THE MAIN POINT IS: George Pell had the cover of his chasuble and alb to whip out his snake and cover it up. It's got nothing to do with Pell's height or stature.

At the original trial, according to Sacristan Max Potter and Monsignor Charles Portelli there had been times when they themselves had not accompanied George Pell back to the sacristy, and could not be certain he was not alone (Pell's alibi is shot there).

Mgr Portelli is Pell's alibi that he always accompanied Pell (untrue according to the backflip) and that Pell was on the steps of the Cathedral at time of offending talking to people. This is why there was the to and fro between the judge and prosecutor. The prosecutor didn't call Mgr Portelli a liar.

I must get the recent appeal transcript (online). I'll update. It's a matter of public record.
 

StarryPlough01

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We knew this was coming down the pipeline...



George Pell is being sued by a victim in a civil suit being heard in Supreme Court for 'failure to protect' him from notorious convicted abuser: Christian Brother Edward [Ted] Dowlan


June 7, 2019 — 2.25pm


By Karen Sweeney


The man was a student at East Melbourne's Cathedral College when he was abused by Dowlan, who was first jailed in the 1990s for abusing boys in the 1970s and 1980s.

… the man alleges Pell knew of the Dowlan's abuse and was involved in moving him from school to school, allowing it to continue.

Pell was the episcopal vicar for education in the Ballarat diocese from 1973 to 1984.
....

He [Dowlan] was jailed again in 2015 after admitting to the abuse of another 20 boys.


Starry: Please Note: Former Christian Brother Edward Dowlan changed his name to Ted Bales.
 

Catahualpa

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What's up with Judge Chris Maxwell's question to Prosecutor Boyce?

I'm concerned about the questions to Prosecutor Boyce (see my above post about Melissa Davey's article).

I'm not one to fall into that trap - George Pell was in the sacristy (as described by the victim). THE MAIN POINT IS: George Pell had the cover of his chasuble and alb to whip out his snake and cover it up. It's got nothing to do with Pell's height or stature.

At the original trial, according to Sacristan Max Potter and Monsignor Charles Portelli there had been times when they themselves had not accompanied George Pell back to the sacristy, and could not be certain he was not alone (Pell's alibi is shot there).

Mgr Portelli is Pell's alibi that he always accompanied Pell (untrue according to the backflip) and that Pell was on the steps of the Cathedral at time of offending talking to people. This is why there was the to and fro between the judge and prosecutor. The prosecutor didn't call Mgr Portelli a liar.

I must get the recent appeal transcript (online). I'll update. It's a matter of public record.
They were saying that it was extremely unlikely that Cardinal Pell would have been alone straight after Mass let alone in the Sacristy unaccompanied.

After Mass the Cardinal would have been out front of the Cathedral talking to the parishioners

The choirboys would have been at the same time shepherded out the back by their minders

They did not have access to the Sacristy where was usually locked when not in use.

The cabinet containing the wine used in the Consecration was also under lock and key

For this incident to have taken place then FOUR unlikely set of circumstances would have had to have taken place simultaneously

On the basis that a defendant is entitled to a presumption of innocence then the onus is on the prosecution to produce it

They produced none - or even a witnesss that could corroborate the accusers story

Nothing

Where the accuser was claiming to recollect something they alleged happened 19 years earlier!

- in a Trial that was conducted in Secret

It is hard to see how the Judges here cn do anything other than acquit Cardinal Pell of these charges.
 

StarryPlough01

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We've gone over this on my thread Cardinal Pell Found Guilty of Child Sexual Abuse (blue coloured layout site). George Pell would have to take a pee. Sacristan Max Potter said sacramental wine was sometimes left out, etc. etc.

I couldn't find any transcripts on the appeal from the news media. We will have to wait for the reasoned decision.

Supreme Court of Victoria live streamed the appeal - George Pell v R.
 

StarryPlough01

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No more time wasting.
 


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