Castlepollard Exclusion From Commission on Mother and Baby Homes INQUIRY. (Second Thread)

StarryPlough01

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I wanted to get more information (hopefully a transcript) regarding below conversation between Justice Chris Maxwell and Prosecutor Boyce… I discovered two different accounts?

Whichever judge asked the questions - Chris Maxwell? Or Mark Weinberg? - maybe both judges did at different times - relating to two separate assault incidents? - we can read in the second article (see below) Judge Mark Weinberg is talking about the second assault of "R" in the sacristy corridor … which only lasted a few seconds.



Judge Chris Maxwell

'George Pell appeal: prosecutor struggles to answer judges' questions'


Thu 6 Jun 2019 16.37 AEST Last modified on Thu 6 Jun 2019 18.14 AEST



Melissa Davey


Maxwell, who dominated the questioning, put it to Boyce that it was “wildly improbable” that someone of Pell’s height and stature would not have been seen approaching two choirboys. He was asked why Pell would then abuse those boys in a place with many potential witnesses.


Additionally, I found this article quoting Justice Mark Weinberg ~

‘Highly improbable’: Judges cast doubt on Pell victim’s evidence


12:00AM June 7, 2019


By Tessa Akerman Reporter


“The argument against you of course is, that it’s just so wildly improbable that the Archbishop conspicuous by his height and his dress, would not have been seen approaching at very close quarters, a choir boy,’’ Justice Weinberg said.

Starry:

In any case, I don't find it "wildly improbable." I've read too many survivor testimonies like this one - Christian Brother, James Seamus Treacy ~~~


'Former Christian Brother guilty of indecent assault of school boys'


Wed, Jun 21, 2017, 22:55 Updated: Thu, Jun 22, 2017, 08:54


David Raleigh


The court heard evidence from the victims, who were aged ten years old and in fifth class at the time.

The victims said he would abuse them in front of one another while he taught a “military style” class. His modus operandi, the court heard, was to place his hands down the front of the boys trousers and fondle their privates.

….

A third victim also broke down several times in court as he described Treacy abusing him in “full view of the class”. The court heard the victim’s did not tell anyone about the abuse until they were contacted by gardaí in 2007 investigating allegations about Treacy. “I locked it to the back of my mind. That’s where I wanted it to stay,” the man said.
 
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StarryPlough01

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I (Starry) HIGHLY RECOMMEND this Prime Time programme on you ... tube.com to YOU - it overlaps with a lot of the issues discussed on tortoiseshacki.ie interview with guest Irish Examiner Senior Reporter Conall O'Fatharta






Ireland's Institutions | Explained By Prime Time


RTÉ - IRELAND’S NATIONAL PUBLIC SERVICE MEDIA


Published on Jun 4, 2019


The Magdelene laundries, mother & baby homes, and industrial schools may have closed decades ago, but what happened in them still regularly tops the news agenda. Tanya Sillem and Mick Peelo take you through how the institutional system functioned, and affected generations of Irish people.

Starry:

American Kevin Bates, an adoptee from a mother and baby home living in US talks about the deep sense of loss he feels inside him
:


"As much as my life has been happy and very wonderful, there's a sorrow of not knowing where you came from."​

Kevin had loving adoptive parents.

Intuitively, I knew as a young child that I was lucky to know where I came from. At the convent, one of the girls in my class was adopted. The other girls thought 'Eileen' had to be well behaved in order to please her adoptive parents. She was perfectly groomed, studious, reserved and - above all else - kind. I hope life has been kind to Eileen and she has found the joy and happiness she deserves.



Conall Ó Fátharta
– #IllegalAdoptions Ep.163

Posted on May 31, 2019 by The Tortoise Shack

Tony Groves & co host: Martin McMahon

Guest: Senior Reporter with Irish Examiner Conall O'Fatharta




Conall Ó Fátharta | The Echo Chamber | The Tortoise Shack


"Ireland has a troubled history of dealing with women and children and our guest in the tortoise shack, Senior Reporter with the Irish Examiner,"


On Survivors Access to FOI, Conall O'Fatharta stated
:



(n) Tulsa keeps saying (to deny access to the records) these are adoption cases, but no adoption happened. (n)

Starry: This is stonewalling by Tulsa. You have a right to your personal data (GDPR).
 

StarryPlough01

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Stunning testimony from Tuam survivor Teresa O'Sullivan - NUIG Tuam Oral History Project



'Interview with survivor Tuam Mother and Baby Home'


Scroll to 4:47 in podcast (open url below)


Starry:

Teresa was in the Tuam Mother and Baby Home for nearly 2 years. Her mother had to leave after one year, and Teresa stayed at Tuam for a further 10 months.

Teresa said photos were taken of the children who were "earmarked for the America market," and she had "staged" photos taken of her.

Teresa was sent to St Patrick's orphanage in Cork. She was hospitalised after leaving Tuam for 6 weeks (chronic abcesses in the ear, large perforation in one ear, a smaller perforation in the other, rashes…). I didn't quite catch what Teresa said, possibly impetigo - skin infection caused by staph bacteria. Teresa said that she wasn't cared for at Tuam and as a consequence has to wear two hearing aids… Teresa was adopted by a "beautiful" West Cork family.

Teresa said:


"You always ask the question - What is my identity, where did I come from?"​



Morning Ireland Extra: Tuam Mother and Baby Home

Updated / Friday, 7 Jun 2019 07:36


By Tommy Meskill


Tuam Oral History Project:



Earlier this year survivors of the mother-and-baby home at Tuam, Co Galway, gathered at NUI Galway for the launch of The Tuam Oral History Project.

Teresa O'Sullivan's story:


Her mother came back looking for her, but by that time she was in Cork. Her mother was told by the nuns that she had already messed up her life and she wouldn't get an opportunity to mess up Teresa's.

Starry:

Teresa didn't specifically say whether her biological mother (pregnant at 16) came looking for her before she was adopted by the West Cork family. I 'kinda' thought this might have been the case (we'll see).
 

StarryPlough01

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As Irish Examiner Journo Conall O'Fatharta said on 31 May 2019, while being interviewed on tortoiseshack.ie by Tony Groves and co-host Martin McMahon - Conall O'Fatharta thinks the adoptions are bigger than the Mother and Baby homes - and there should be a separate Inquiry to the Mother and Baby Homes... I agree with Conall...




Conall Ó Fátharta – #IllegalAdoptions Ep.163


Posted on May 31, 2019 by The Tortoise Shack

Tony Groves & co host: Martin McMahon

Guest: Senior Reporter with Irish Examiner Conall O'Fatharta



Irish Independent

'Nuns handed me the wrong baby and gave mine away'
[St Patrick"s Guild]

'Mother and woman she raised as daughter for decades seek truth as DNA reveals they are not related'

Saturday June 8, 2019

By Shane Phelan


ind-4.jpg
 

StarryPlough01

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Catal,

What do you think? Listen to all the podcast.


George Pell's appeal: will the verdict stand? – The Reckoning podcast


David Marr and Melissa Davey. Produced by Miles Martignoni

Sat 8 Jun 2019 08.23 AEST

"David Marr: after a train wreck of a day, George Pell’s fate hinges on alibi evidence"


David Marr said Monsignor Charles Portell is master of ceremonies in charge of the archbishop in Melbourne. Mgr Portelli gave evidence that George Pell was at the Western Door of St Patrick's Cathedral, Melbourne, after mass, from the beginning. Portelli also gave evidence "in obedience to an ancient custom he never left the side of the archbishop while he was robed."

However, under cross examination Portelli did say that custom was not always adhered to at that time.

Pell's barrister Bret Walker SC spent up to an hour at the end of the proceeding in a final attempt to persuade the 3 judges of Pell's case - trying to create reasonable doubt. Walker spent most of that time on Mgr Charles Portelli's evidence.

Journalist Melissa Davey didn't think Mgr Portelli came over as an impartial witness - his evidence was challenged. Melissa Davey thinks there could have been a sense in the jury that Mgr Portelli was biased towards Pell.

Melissa said there was talk that Portelli couldn't always have accompanied Pell because at times George Pell would have to dash off to a meeting, and Mgr Portelli would have to get the car ready and Pell would join him later in the car park.

There was discussion - Mgr Portelli being a smoker might have ducked away for a smoke.

Melissa said the jury was given very strong directions (by Justice Peter Kidd no doubt) - it was up to them to decide who it was they believed (if Portelli was a credible witness).

It might have been David Marr (?) who said the impression Mgr Portelli made on the jury is paramount.


[I wish we had a transcript]


Edit:

Catal, My opinion: If I were a jury member, I would think the "ancient custom" tradition sounded concocted. I wouldn't find Mgr Portelli to be a credible witness. And by all accounts, it was the defence who argued that it was impossible for Pell to be in two places simultaneously in the priests sacristy and at the Western Door of St Pat's Cathedral talking to the faithful (with Mgr Portelli by his side at all times - ancient custom).
 
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StarryPlough01

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In the wake of Cardinal George Pell's conviction...



'The Catholic Church after George Pell: Can it find salvation in a greater role for women?'

By social affairs correspondent Norman Hermant and Sterre Meijer


Updated about 5 hours ago



The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse:

It recommended women be given decision-making roles at all levels of the church after evidence suggested dioceses where women played a larger role had lower levels of sexual abuse
.



Kate Englebrecht, who formerly worked for a bishop:

But Ms Englebrecht goes further. She wants women to have a place in the highest role in the church. As long as she has been a Catholic, she has felt the calling to become a priest. ….

Kate Englebrecht said:

"So far, it's been as long 'as you've got testicles, you're in, you've got a priesthood'.

"'But come to us as a woman, and there's no question. You have no vocation to the priesthood.
 

StarryPlough01

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Unmarried mothers sent to adoption body by singing priest Michael Cleary

Sunday 9 June 2019


Shane Phelan


The late Fr Michael Cleary is said to have played a central role in referring single mothers to the now infamous St Patrick's Guild adoption society.

Helen Maguire, who brought her baby there in 1966, said the "singing priest" suggested this to her while he was chaplain to the Irish community in London.

….

Unlike other women who went to the guild, which was located at Temple Hill in Blackrock, Co Dublin, Ms Maguire did not bow to pressure to have her daughter Christine adopted. But the 71-year-old would discover last year that the baby she collected from St Patrick's and raised as her own was not her biological daughter.
 

Catahualpa

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Unmarried mothers sent to adoption body by singing priest Michael Cleary

Sunday 9 June 2019


Shane Phelan


The late Fr Michael Cleary is said to have played a central role in referring single mothers to the now infamous St Patrick's Guild adoption society.

Helen Maguire, who brought her baby there in 1966, said the "singing priest" suggested this to her while he was chaplain to the Irish community in London.

….

Unlike other women who went to the guild, which was located at Temple Hill in Blackrock, Co Dublin, Ms Maguire did not bow to pressure to have her daughter Christine adopted. But the 71-year-old would discover last year that the baby she collected from St Patrick's and raised as her own was not her biological daughter.
You see this is more silly headlining by the Indo

One woman makes an accusation about a dead man over what supposedly happened over 50 years ago

- and now its an historical fact! :unsure:

Don't think so....
 

StarryPlough01

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You see this is more silly headlining by the Indo One woman makes an accusation about a dead man over what supposedly happened over 50 years ago - and now its an historical fact! :unsure: Don't think so....
Nope.

The Indo followed up on Helen Maguire's story and uncovered a separate case from the same year as Helen where Fr Michael Cleary "arranged" for another single mum to bring her baby to St Patrick's Guild, Dublin.

The article got me wondering how many children the man himself - Fr Michel Cleary - has fathered?

This article is also about the mixing up / switching of Helen Maguire's baby girl at St Pat's Guild. Ms Maguire only found out last year that the daughter she raised as her own is not her biological child.*

We are still waiting to hear about collecting DNA samples from the Tuam survivors and relatives - time is of the essence. No report published as yet.

More infö here on collection of DNA samples ~
 

StarryPlough01

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Right to know...

Demands grow for thorough and independent investigation and Catholic adoption files to be opened


Monday 10 June 2019


Independent.ie Newsdesk


The Irish Independent revealed on Saturday how Christine Skipsey (52) and the woman who she'd thought was her mother, Helen Maguire (71), took a DNA test after hearing of the illegal adoptions scandal in Ireland.


Claire McGettrick, co-founder of the Adoption Rights Alliance (ARA):


"Most importantly, this revelation further demonstrates the need to open personal and administrative records held by Tusla (who hold SPG's and other adoption agency records) and the Adoption Authority to adopted people and other individuals such as Ms Maguire and Ms Skipsey," said Ms McGettrick.
 

Catahualpa

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Nope.

The Indo followed up on Helen Maguire's story and uncovered a separate case from the same year as Helen where Fr Michael Cleary "arranged" for another single mum to bring her baby to St Patrick's Guild, Dublin.

The article got me wondering how many children the man himself - Fr Michel Cleary - has fathered?

This article is also about the mixing up / switching of Helen Maguire's baby girl at St Pat's Guild. Ms Maguire only found out last year that the daughter she raised as her own is not her biological child.*

We are still waiting to hear about collecting DNA samples from the Tuam survivors and relatives - time is of the essence. No report published as yet.

More infö here on collection of DNA samples ~
The Tuam 'survivors' were played like a violin by the Government

- the story is a HOAX

But it sure made good copy in the lead up to the Gay Marriage & Abortion Referendums...

It will now be buried once again....
 

StarryPlough01

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The Tuam 'survivors' were played like a violin by the Government

- the story is a HOAX

But it sure made good copy in the lead up to the Gay Marriage & Abortion Referendums...

It will now be buried once again....

*We need the coroner to be present at start of exhumation of Tuam Children Remains…

*Enough already of *New* legislation pretext...



Cat, I think Minister for Children Katherine Zappone now has to be concerned about her legacy around Tuam. So, if not for the sake of survivors, she will push the cabinet to agree on what she has promised. Zappone is still a politician, and will obfuscate around having a coroner at the start of the exhumations.

Did you see this?


'Bones found washed up on Canadian beach belong to Irish Famine victims'


15:31, 8 JUN 2019


By Sylvia Pownall


Skeletal remains of three boys - two aged seven and one eleven-year-old - suggest rural Irish origins based on diet and indicate severe malnutrition.


(y)Parks Canada conservation manager Mathieu Cote speaks on analysis (evidence) of old bones typical of an agricultural rural population dependent on potato diet ~~~


They were old bones, and they were very fragile,” Cote said, adding that 160 years of saltwater exposure worsened their condition.

Scientists said chronic health problems such as malnutrition were also evident.
 

StarryPlough01

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Continues...

'Human remains found in Gaspé are from 1847 shipwreck, Parks Canada confirms'




Spencer Van Dyk · CBC News · Posted: Jun 07, 2019 1:45 PM ET | Last Updated: June 8


The remains found at Cap-des-Rosiers showed that the shipwrecked people had a diet low in protein, and that they were under nutritional stress, likely caused by the [GREAT] famine in Ireland.

Most of the bones belonged to women and children.

Isabelle Ribot, an associate professor of bioarcheology at Université de Montréal:


Ribot said she would have liked to do ancient DNA analysis on the bones, but it was impossible because of their condition.

They will be buried near the Irish Memorial on Cap-des-Rosiers Beach, which was erected in 1990 in memory of those who died after the ship sank.
 

StarryPlough01

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'Irish Famine remains found on Canadian beach'

9 June 2019



"The bones of three children washed up on a beach at Cap-des-Rosiers following a storm in 2011.

"The remains of 18 others, mostly women and children, were uncovered by archaeologists on the beach in 2016.

"Experts have now said the remains were from the 1847 Carricks ship from County Sligo.
 

StarryPlough01

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Adoption Bill not compliant with EU law …


'Law Lecturer and Feminist Máiréad Enright‏ says proposal out of step with European norms and assumes adopted people are a 'threat' to their natural parents' wellbeing' ….



Read Ms Enright's tweets below



Bodger at 9:44 am June 12, 2019



Speaking on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, Minister for Children Ms Katherine Zappone said:


She had listened to the concerns of adopted people and the changes, in her view, balance the right to privacy with the right to identity.


It is now proposed that the child and family agency Tusla would contact birth parents in relation to any request for information and, if they object to its release, the Adoption Authority of Ireland would make a decision.



Joan Burton‏ Verified account @joanburton


Adopted people need their rights respected. Just heard Minister Zappone on @morningireland yet again set limits on adopted peoples’ rights to their own information. I am deeply disappointed by her approach to information rights for adopted people.
12:17 AM - 12 Jun 2019




Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright Jun 11

Briefly, government are proposing that as soon as an adopted person requests their identifying information, Tusla will contact all known natural parents. Parents will be able to request a hearing before the Adoption Authority with a view to blocking that information’s release.

Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright Jun 11

It is not at all clear how adopted people’s rights will be safeguarded by the process, especially given Tusla’s poor history (see @ococonuts reporting).

Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright Jun 11

This proposal is completely out of step with European norms. It is also a disproportionate measure which assumes adopted people are a “threat” to their natural parents’ wellbeing.

Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright Jun 11

Once the new legislation is passed, AG is proposing that people adopted in future should have automatic access to their full file once they reach adulthood. So these are discriminatory provisions affecting people adopted in the era of the laundries and the Mother and Baby Homes.

Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright Jun 11

Together with proposals under the Retention of Records Bill 2019, which will seal testimonies of records of child abuse for 75 years, this legislation shows that the state is not willing to face up to the past.

Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright Jun 11

If anything, this imposition of state control reinscribes the shaming and silencing mechanisms used against natural mothers under Ireland’s regime of forced (and often illegal) adoption.

Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright Jun 11

The Taoiseach recently said that we would “learn, atone and put things right”. So what is happening here? Why is the gov ignoring the valuable testimony of eg the Clann Project?

Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright Jun 11

.@adoptionrights have proposed series of useful amendments to this Bill.

Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright Jun 11

People must have access, at a minimum, to their unredacted early life records *and* to their birth certs (which are already public records). Natural mothers should also be able to access their state records.

Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright Jun 11

Amendments to the Bill could also be used to establish meaningful information, matching and tracing services and an independent archive of relevant records.

Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright Jun 11
There is a lot more wrong with the Bill, but the basic assumption that this category of adopted people should be quarantined in this way is highly objectionable and should be resisted.

Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright 24h24 hours ago

Oh and before the AG says “but the Constitution”, @maeveorourke has a solid reading of IO’T v B in the Clann submission to the MBHC. There is no absolute constitutional right to anonymity. The right to privacy of natural mothers must be balanced against the right to identity.

Máiréad Enright‏ @maireadenright 24h24 hours ago

And anyway framing this as “mothers vs adopted people” isn’t the point. Adults are capable of navigating this information regime, and the state should assist them to do so, not continue to frustrate them.




Updated / Wednesday, 12 Jun 2019 12:13



Claire McGettrick of the Adoption Rights Alliance urged the minister to reconsider the changes and said the State is conflating and confusing privacy and secrecy.

Speaking on the same programme, she said that changes to the bill are "frankly outrageous", adding that not every adopted person wanted contact, but rather information about oneself - a right that is granted to every other citizen.


Mairead Enright ~

 

StarryPlough01

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Adoption (Information and Tracing) Bill





Adoption Rights Alliance said:


“Anything less than unfettered access to birth certificates (which are already public records) and unredacted early life and adoption records is deeply discriminatory to adopted people and those born in mother and baby homes and similar institutions who have grown up under the closed, secret system here in Ireland.”



Starry:


What a load of tosh from Minister Zappone.
 

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Lyra McKee's eagerly awaited new book ‘Angels with Blue Faces’ reportedly shines a light on Kincora Boys Home's alleged paedophile ring in Belfast



AN SIONNACH FIONN‏ @AnSionnachFionn
AN SIONNACH FIONN Retweeted Village Magazine


Given the blanket media coverage of the death of Lyra McKee it'll be interesting to see how much attention the contents of her posthumous book will receive as it reportedly gathers the evidence for a paedophile ring in Belfast linked to the UK security services in the '70s


3:16 PM - 13 Jun 2019




by admin 13 June, 2019, 12:13 pm



Allegations:

One key RUC Kincora investigator assaulted at least one former Kincora boy, Richard Kerr. He did so in Preston, England. Kerr had been abused by politicians, paramilitaries and others.
[….}
The book may yet prove to be the rock on which the Kincora cover-up finally flounders.


'Lyra McKee’s forthcoming book may raise questions of the State-sponsored assassination of a sitting Westminster MP by an MI5 agent inside the Provisional IRA?'

by admin
12 June, 2019, 12:28 pm


By Joseph de Burca


Kincora is a scandal that will not go away. Will Lyra McKee’s forthcoming book raise uncomfortable questions of the State-sponsored assassination of a sitting Westminster MP by an MI5 agent inside the Provisional IRA?

Draw your own conclusions - Some background context:


 
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StarryPlough01

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Man's High Court Civil Suit claims he was 'stolen' as baby by the Good Shepherd Sisters who ran Marianvale, Newry, Mother and Baby Home and trafficked across the border

June 13 2019 8:47 PM


Alan Erwin



*Terry Doran was born in December 1962

*Alleges his mother Alice McCausland's signature was forged to expedite the move to Republic of Ireland without her consent

*Mr Doran claims he was then taken to another home in Fahan, Co Donegal in March 1963, despite Ms McCausland refusing to give him up.

*He was adopted and raised by a couple in Co Londonderry.

*Mr Doran did not see his mother again for another 46 years.

*This case is not covered by the Historical Institutional Abuse Inquiry.



Starry:
We will be seeing a lot more of these human trafficking case torts.
 

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Brides of Christ raped by priests, forced abortions...




By Christopher Livesay


Doris Wagner joined the convent in 2003, raped in 2008 by a priest:



Christopher Livesay:

…. A devout Catholic from Germany, Doris Wagner was 24 years old, living and working at this religious community just outside the Vatican.

Doris Wagner:

He was preaching at the chapel. He was giving me holy communion. He was sitting at breakfast, at lunch, at dinner on the same — at the same table. I was ironing his shirts.


Sister Carmen Sammut on changing the culture of sexual abuse by priests and cover-ups:


And also to be able to say wherever we need to say it who the perpetrator was, because we would not want that person to continue to hurting other sisters.
 


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