Castlepollard Exclusion From Commission on Mother and Baby Homes INQUIRY. (Second Thread)

Catahualpa

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OMG Starry you simply must read this:

What is the difference between this account of child sex abuse in a Catholic church in Philadelphia and the evidence given by the sole accuser in the Victorian court case that convicted Cardinal George Pell of sexually abusing a thirteen-year-old choir boy at St Patrick’s Cathedral, Melbourne, in 1996? Not much.


Looks like Cardinal Pell's accuser got the Story from an old copy of Rolling Stone

-
run by the well known Homosexual Jann Wenner!
 


StarryPlough01

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'Cardinal George Pell to find out if child sexual abuse appeal has succeeded'

By Melissa Davey
Mon 19 Aug 2019 19.00 BST Last modified on Tue 20 Aug 2019 01.17 BST


'Two other grounds of appeal'


"Even if the appellant judges agree that these were errors, they would need to find that the errors were so egregious that they could have affected the jury verdict in order for Pell’s appeal to succeed. If the judges accept the appeal on either of these grounds a retrial would be the most likely result, rather than Pell’s conviction being overturned.​
"However, the court may also find it unjust to order Pell to stand trial again, and a permanent stay of proceedings may be ordered which would halt the case from ever continuing. Pell would be released from custody in this scenario. Whether the conviction holds or is overturned, whichever party loses is likely to appeal the decision to the high court. However, there is no guarantee the high court will hear the case, as certain legal requirements need to be met.​


Starry:

In the above scenario (two other grounds of appeal) should George Pell be released from custody, street protests might follow. I'm sure influential supporters are trying to pull strings to get Pell released.

It would be doing Pell a favour to be re-tried. It's not unjust. It gives him an opportunity to be exonerated and not sit in jail for the rest of his life. What's wrong with these people in their backward thinking?

We might be getting the PR now to try and soften the blow.
 

StarryPlough01

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'Dr Gráinne Healy appointed new chair of [Collaborative] Forum on Mother and Baby Homes '

Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 05:37 PM


By Conall Ó Fátharta Irish Examiner Reporter


"Ms Zappone published the recommendations of the forum in April but her failure to publish the report in full has caused huge anger amongst forum members.​
....​

"She [Minister Zappone] was also accused of "completely misrepresenting" the recommendations of the forum by offering to amend the Adoption (Information and Tracing) Bill.​
"In fact, the full report, which has been obtained by the Irish Examiner is scathing of the Bill and called for it to be scrapped.​
"It claimed that the “unstated and hidden objective” of the Government’s planned legislation to grant adopted people basic information and tracing rights is to “prevent access” to personal records.​





________

Former Chair of the Collaborative Forum

Tuesday 13th March, 2018


Mr. Gerry Kearney (Chair of the Collaborative Forum)
"Gerry previously served as Secretary General (SG) in the Department of Community Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. He has subsequently served as Chair of the Local Electoral Area Boundary Committee, the National Concert Hall, Social Entrepreneurs Ireland and the DCU incorporation process. He has also chaired the Moore Street Consultative Group. He was appointed as Chair of the Collaborative Forum for former residents of Mother and Baby Homes by the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs in February 2018.​
 

StarryPlough01

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George Pell has lost his appeal in two to one majority. Justice Mark Weinberg upheld appeal. Chief Justice Anne Ferguson and Court of Appeal President Chris Maxwell dismissed the appeal and said they believed the victim and everything he - witness 'J' - said had the "ring of truth"
- Starry





George Pell has lost his appeal:
*By a majority of 2-1, the Victorian Court of Appeal has dismissed Cardinal George Pell's appeal against his child sex abuse convictions.
*Pell will continue to serve his sentence of six years' imprisonment.
*He will remain eligible to apply for parole after he has served three years and eight months of the sentence.
'George Pell appeal: Victorian Supreme Court rules Cardinal will remain behind bars'

By Kelly Burke

Video herein-


Chief Justice Anne Ferguson said she and Justice Chris Maxwell accepted the prosecution's submission that the complainant was a compelling witness.
"(He) was clearly not a liar, was not a fantasist and was a witness of truth," she said.
"Throughout his evidence, the complainant came across as someone who was telling the truth.
"He did not seek to embellish his evidence or tailor it in a manner favourable to the prosecution.
"As might have been expected, there were some things that he could remember, and many things which he could not, and his explanations of why that was so had the ring of truth."



'The appeal of the former archbishop George Pell has been dismissed by a margin of two to one.'

'They found there was nothing about the complainant’s evidence that meant the jury must have had a doubt about the account of child sexual assault.'


Wed 21 Aug 2019 10.37 AEST First published on Wed 21 Aug 2019 08.30 AEST


By Michael McGowan


We have the summary of the judgement read out by Chief Justice Anne Ferguson.
Here’s the opening in full:
“By majority (two to one), the court of appeal has dismissed Cardinal George Pell’s appeal against his conviction for the commission of sexual offences. He will continue to serve his sentence of six years’ imprisonment. He will remain eligible to apply for parole after he has served three years and eight months of his sentence. Whether Cardinal Pell will be released on parole will be a matter for the adult parole board, not the courts.”​


Starry:

Historic moment for the survivors of Church abuses. At last the voices of the powerless victims have been heard. Many victims have taken their own lives. George Pell is the second or third highest ranking official of the Vatican convicted of child rape.

Pell will probably get his High Court appeal being such a high profile case.
 

StarryPlough01

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Victim's lawyer expects Pell to appeal
Viv Waller, the lawyer representing Cardinal Pell’s surviving victim, says is her client is “very relieved” by the outcome in court.​
“It’s been a very long journey for him,” she told ABC Radio Melbourne.​
....​
Dr Waller said she expected Cardinal Pell’s legal team to seek leave to appeal to the High Court.​
“I think we’ll all be carefully reading and considering the full judgment which will take a little bit of time,” she said.​
“I’m told it’s 300 pages long so no doubt there will be lots of legal minds poring over that decision.”​
Loretta Florance 11 minutes ago (Updated: 11 minutes ago)​
 

StarryPlough01

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Updated 0100 GMT (0900 HKT) August 21, 2019


By Hilary Whiteman, CNN

"Melbourne (CNN) Former Vatican treasurer George Pell will remain in prison after an Australian appeals court rejected the disgraced cardinal's appeal against his conviction for sexually assaulting two 13-year-old choirboys in the mid-1990s.​
....​
"From the dock in court 15, Pell showed little reaction as Chief Justice Anne Ferguson delivered Wednesday's verdict, which followed more than two months of deliberation between three judges who returned a ruling with vote two for and one against. Pell listened intently during the summary, staring straight at the judge.​
"Members of the public, campaigners against child sex abuse and supporters of the church had lined up early to get a seat in the packed courtroom to hear whether Pell would be released or face a possible re-trial on five charges -- one count of sexual penetration of a child and four counts of committing an indecent act with a child.​
 

StarryPlough01

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Starry: George Pell maintains his innocence.


JUDGMENT HEREIN:

Wed 21 Aug 2019 03.02 BST First published on Tue 20 Aug 2019 23.30 BST


By Michael McGowan


Pell v the Queen Judgment Summary by The Guardian on Scribd
For Summary of Judgment - see Supreme Court of Victoria website pdf link below dotted line


Pell v the Queen [2019] VSCA 186 by The Guardian on Scribd
For Reasons of Court of Appeal - see Supreme Court of Victoria website pdf link below dotted line



Pell releases statement after appeal is dismissed
"Cardinal George Pell’s spokeswoman has released a statement. He maintains his innocence. His lawyers are considering a special leave application to the high court.​
"Cardinal Pell is obviously disappointed with the decision today.​
"However his legal team will thoroughly examine the judgment in order to determine a special leave application to the high court.​
"While noting the 2-1 split decision, Cardinal Pell maintains his innocence. We thank his many supporters.​
.......... .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... ......... .........

EDIT:

Supreme Court of Victoria website published 'Summary of Judgment' & 'Reasons of the Court of Appeal':




Summary of Judgment Pell v The Queen [2019] VSCA 186 21 August 2019



325pp
REASONS OF THE COURT OF APPEAL - PELL V THE QUEEN [2019] VSCA 186 (PDF2.11MB)


 
Last edited:

Catahualpa

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It took years and many trials and retrials for the Birmingham Six and the Guilford Four to be cleared of the Crimes they were wrongly convicted of.

I suppose the Judges here were faced with the same predicament as Lord Denning back in 1980 and his 'appalling vista' when rejecting the Appeals of the Birmingham Six against their convictions.

BRITAIN'S best-known judge Lord Denning forever associated in Irish minds with controversial remarks about the Birmingham Six and Guildford Four died yesterday at the age of 100.

Of course this will be appealed further ...
 
Last edited:

Catahualpa

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In his dissenting judgment, Justice Weinberg found that, at times, the complainant was inclined to embellish aspects of his account. He concluded that his evidence contained discrepancies, displayed inadequacies, and otherwise lacked probative value so as to cause him to have a doubt as to the applicant’s guilt. He could not exclude as a reasonable possibility that some of what the complainant said was concocted, particularly in relation to the second incident. Justice Weinberg found that the complainant’s account of the second incident was entirely implausible and quite unconvincing. Nevertheless, Justice Weinberg stated that in relation to the first incident, if the complainant’s evidence was the only evidence, 5 he might well have found it difficult to say that the jury, acting reasonably, were ‘bound’ to have a reasonable doubt about the Cardinal’s guilt. He went on to note, however, that there was more than just the complainant’s evidence. In Justice Weinberg’s view there was a significant body of cogent and, in some cases, impressive evidence suggesting that the complainant’s account was, in a realistic sense, ‘impossible’ to accept. To his mind, there is a significant possibility that the Cardinal may not have committed the offences. In those circumstances, Justice Weinberg stated that in his view the convictions could not stand.





7-6a6beea47f.jpg



 

StarryPlough01

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Cat

Thank you for the Guardian article with piece by journo Melissa Davey.

The majority judges said the complete opposite to Justice Mark Weinberg.

If Pell is granted leave to appeal to the High Court, I think the appeal will be expedited because of his high profile.

The Judgment is here on Supreme Court of Victoria website -

Summary of Judgment Pell v The Queen [2019] VSCA 186 21 August 2019

And

325 pp
REASONS OF THE COURT OF APPEAL - PELL V THE QUEEN [2019] VSCA 186 (PDF2.11MB)

 

StarryPlough01

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I posted on below thread to encourage research - as new information has come to light ...and stayed a little while... The following links contain relevant info pertaining to this thread.


#587

#623
We need a national archive on our sites of incarceration. 'Keepers of the Flame' docu reinforced importance of narratives and first hand testimonies:
- Starry
 

Catahualpa

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Justice Weinberg
Cat

Thank you for the Guardian article with piece by journo Melissa Davey.

The majority judges said the complete opposite to Justice Mark Weinberg.

If Pell is granted leave to appeal to the High Court, I think the appeal will be expedited because of his high profile.

The Judgment is here on Supreme Court of Victoria website -

Summary of Judgment Pell v The Queen [2019] VSCA 186 21 August 2019

And

325 pp
REASONS OF THE COURT OF APPEAL - PELL V THE QUEEN [2019] VSCA 186 (PDF2.11MB)
The fact that a Senior Judge of the State of Victoria has now come out and cast doubt on this Conviction is a very welcome development.

If one other had done the same

- then Cardinal Pell would today be a Free Man.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Justice Weinberg


The fact that a Senior Judge of the State of Victoria has now come out and cast doubt on this Conviction is a very welcome development.

If one other had done the same

- then Cardinal Pell would today be a Free Man.
Mm. Kicking his heels up and chasing little boys around for sexual gratification.
 

StarryPlough01

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Lumpy,



Satire

The Chaser comedians ‘update’ George Pell’s plaque at St Mary’s Cathedral

'A comedian from The Chaser added an extra detail to George Pell’s controversial plaque outside St Mary’s Cathedral in Sydney.'



Short video clip of The Chaser herein ~


Andrew Bucklow@ACBucklow

"Pell’s plaque sits in an area of the St Mary’s Cathedral that commemorates former archbishops. He was the Archbishop of Sydney from 2001 to 2014 before he was called to the Vatican for other duties that led him to become the world’s third most powerful Catholic.​
"In February, St Mary’s Cathedral made the controversial decision to keep the plaque on display despite Pell being found guilty of four charges, including the rape of a boy and molestation of another.​
"At the time a spokesman for the Catholic Archdiocese of Sydney said the church had “no reason to change arrangements” and remove the plaque while Pell moved forward with his appeal.​



f2m7ukilbrh31.jpg



Image posted on Reddit.com from the Chaser

 

StarryPlough01

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'Like it or not, Pell judgment was demonstrably fair'

August 21, 2019 — 7.01pm


By Stuart Webb


Fine legal minds will examine the over 300-page judgment for any potential grounds of appeal. But the judgment delivered in summary by Chief Justice Anne Ferguson passed the “pub test”. It was demonstrably fair to both the complainant and the prosecution.

Starry: ^^^ Was this a typo? ^^^ Did Stuart Webb mean to say: 'it was demonstrably fair to both sides"?


It is not necessarily clear that a High Court appeal will proceed; the High Court needs to grant special leave to appeal and would need to be convinced that the matter involved either a question of law; was of public importance; whether it is necessary to resolve differences as to the state of the law or whether it was in the interests of the administration of justice. Questioning the reasonableness of the jury deliberation process, on the evidence before them, as has been confirmed by two eminent legal minds, may not provide the required grounds for appeal.


Starry: There is more to be revealed from the Australian Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, once the appeal process is exhausted / completed. I think this might be around the Ballarat paedophile ring (laicised Catholic priest Gerald Ridsdale et al) during George Pell's time there.

I don't think there has been much change in the Church's attitude to their paedophiles versus the victims, despite the Church's carefully scripted PR media appearances. When it comes to compensation to victims, they hunker down. All this despite the independent 5 year long independent Commission's findings.

The Archbishop of Melbourne Peter Comensoli is saying that "Witness J" got the wrong man - a case of mistaken identity. "J" would know who sexually assaulted him. I think the Archbishop is trying to sway public opinion in readiness for appeal to the High Court. More info in below two links:


'George Pell to appeal to High Court following rejected bid for freedom'

'George Pell’s legal team is expected to appeal to the High Court. Meanwhile the Archbishop of Melbourne says they got the wrong guy.'

Staff writers


August 22, 201912:52pm


 

StarryPlough01

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'After the appeal: The tragedy of Cardinal George Pell'

Posted Wed 21 Aug 2019, 4:58pm Updated Wed 21 Aug 2019, 6:48pm


By Patrick Parkinson

However, the jury, hearing a cogent and convincing testimony from the complainant, notwithstanding vigorous cross-examination, might have needed more reasons than arguments about impossibility to find for Cardinal Pell. Those arguments did not persuade the Chief Justice and the President of the Court of Appeal.​
We must remember that 22 years on from an event, people are unlikely to have an accurate recall of many of the details. There will be discrepancies, misrembered elements or confusion about dates. Yet this is not a good enough reason to reject a person’s recollection of the central events that they recall.​



'Extreme' Pell supporters should reconsider to heal division: Marr

By Rachel Mealey on The World Today

Cat,

The following short video clip is worth listening to… Guardian newspaper journo David Marr said: "this is not a case of points of law… the High Court decides complex questions of law …uncertain whether HC will take this on and give it another review" :



'I hope it is all over now': George Pell's victim speaks


August 21, 2019 — 12.00pm



"I am grateful for a legal system that everyone can believe in, where everyone is equal before the law and no one is above the law."


Starry:
I have always believed the courageous victim "Witness J". He attended the funeral of his friend - the other choirboy - and descended to a "dark place." He then felt compelled to come forward at that time. It was never about money, it was about justice for two 13 year old choirboys.



 

Catahualpa

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'After the appeal: The tragedy of Cardinal George Pell'

Posted Wed 21 Aug 2019, 4:58pm Updated Wed 21 Aug 2019, 6:48pm


By Patrick Parkinson

However, the jury, hearing a cogent and convincing testimony from the complainant, notwithstanding vigorous cross-examination, might have needed more reasons than arguments about impossibility to find for Cardinal Pell. Those arguments did not persuade the Chief Justice and the President of the Court of Appeal.​
We must remember that 22 years on from an event, people are unlikely to have an accurate recall of many of the details. There will be discrepancies, misrembered elements or confusion about dates. Yet this is not a good enough reason to reject a person’s recollection of the central events that they recall.​



'Extreme' Pell supporters should reconsider to heal division: Marr

By Rachel Mealey on The World Today


Cat,

The following short video clip is worth listening to… Guardian newspaper journo David Marr said: "this is not a case of points of law… the High Court decides complex questions of law …uncertain whether HC will take this on and give it another review" :



'I hope it is all over now': George Pell's victim speaks

August 21, 2019 — 12.00pm



"I am grateful for a legal system that everyone can believe in, where everyone is equal before the law and no one is above the law."


Starry: I have always believed the courageous victim "Witness J". He attended the funeral of his friend - the other choirboy - and descended to a "dark place." He then felt compelled to come forward at that time. It was never about money, it was about justice for two 13 year old choirboys.
He will be in line for a hefty payout when the legal process is completed and if the conviction still stands.

It most certainly is about money!
 


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