Catalan Independence a step closer

deirdrem

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A further step has been taken in the process leading to the independence of Catalonia from Spain.
Today a series of Catalan political parties agreed the text to be put to referendum in Catalonia, and the date for the referendum has been set.
In fact, there will be two questions. The first question is "Do you want Catalonia to become a state?" (Vol que Catalunya esdevingui un estat?), while the second question "If you answer Yes, do you want an independent state?" (En cas afirmatiu, vol que sigui un estat independent?)
Consulta catalana - El País
The date has been set for 9th November, 2014. We can expect an interesting year ahead in Spanish politics.

Of course, the Spanish government says they will not allow the referendum to be held, which will most likely eventually lead to a declaration of independence by the parliament of Catalonia (Generalitat) where nationalist parties have a large majority.
 


SilverSpurs

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A further step has been taken in the process leading to the independence of Catalonia from Spain.
Today a series of Catalan political parties agreed the text to be put to referendum in Catalonia, and the date for the referendum has been set.
In fact, there will be two questions. The first question is "Do you want Catalonia to become a state?" (Vol que Catalunya esdevingui un estat?), while the second question "If you answer Yes, do you want an independent state?" (En cas afirmatiu, vol que sigui un estat independent?)
Consulta catalana - El País
The date has been set for 9th November, 2014. We can expect an interesting year ahead in Spanish politics.

Of course, the Spanish government says they will not allow the referendum to be held, which will most likely eventually lead to a declaration of independence by the parliament of Catalonia (Generalitat) where nationalist parties have a large majority.
I smell old woulds reopening in Spain. Not gonna be pretty.
 

lying eyes

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A further step has been taken in the process leading to the independence of Catalonia from Spain.
Today a series of Catalan political parties agreed the text to be put to referendum in Catalonia, and the date for the referendum has been set.
In fact, there will be two questions. The first question is "Do you want Catalonia to become a state?" (Vol que Catalunya esdevingui un estat?), while the second question "If you answer Yes, do you want an independent state?" (En cas afirmatiu, vol que sigui un estat independent?)
Consulta catalana - El País
The date has been set for 9th November, 2014. We can expect an interesting year ahead in Spanish politics.

Of course, the Spanish government says they will not allow the referendum to be held, which will most likely eventually lead to a declaration of independence by the parliament of Catalonia (Generalitat) where nationalist parties have a large majority.
I hope Catalan goes for it and gets it. Why can Spain not just let them go ...Do we all have to be like sheep kept in flocks .......I also hope Scotland does the same..........
 

readytogo

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It's becoming very interesting indeed. If the Generalitat issue a declaration of independence, the government in Madrid certainly won't recognise it and will move to suspend Catalan autonomy as per Article 155 of the Spanish Constitution:

If an Autonomous Community does not fulfil the obligations imposed upon it by the Constitution or other laws, or acts in a way seriously prejudicing the general interests of Spain, the Government, after lodging a complaint with the President of the Autonomous Community and failing to receive satisfaction therefore, may, following approval granted by an absolute majority of the Senate, take the measures necessary in order to compel the latter forcibly to meet said obligations, or in order to protect the above-mentioned general interests.​

Catalonia doesn't have a regional army, so it has no means of materialising its independence. And the Spanish Constitution (Article 8) explicitly charges the Spanish Army with the duty of maintaining Spain's territorial integrity:

The mission of the Armed Forces, comprising the Army, the Navy and the Air Force, is to guarantee the sovereignty and independence of Spain and to defend its territorial integrity and the constitutional order.​

Madrid won't concede Catalan independence but will probably offer fiscal autonomy (like the Basques have) as a compromise.
 

Wearsider

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I like the idea of an independent Catalonia, but where does it end?
 

Dame_Enda

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Madrid is also trying to sabotage the Scottish referendum, warning that they would not automatically be an EU member if they leave the UK. A spokesman of the EU Commission President who keeps attacking the idea happens to be Spanish.

Anyway I believe Spain should let Catalonia go if that's what they want. They are not shy about seeking to alter the boundaries of other countries....
 
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wombat

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I hope Catalan goes for it and gets it. Why can Spain not just let them go ...Do we all have to be like sheep kept in flocks .......I also hope Scotland does the same..........
No more Classicos:(
 

The Fellow

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Bad news for the Irish soccer team if Spain breaks up. Maybe 3 teams instead of 1 who will take up world cup places.
 

Wearsider

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Barcelona-Espanyol will be the new Classico.
 

Mercurial

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I like the idea of an independent Catalonia, but where does it end?
Ideally, with as many people as possible governed by their preferred authority.
 

Mercurial

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Madrid is also trying to sabotage the Scottish referendum, warning that they would not automatically be an EU member if they leave the UK. A spokesman of the EU Commission President who keeps attacking the idea happens to be Spanish.

Anyway I believe Spain should let Catalonia go if that's what they want. They are not shy about seeking to alter the boundaries of other countries....
Why would they automatically be an EU member? It was the UK that signed up to EU membership, after all.
 

wombat

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Wearsider

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Ideally, with as many people as possible governed by their preferred authority.
I call for a referendum on an independent North England.

 

sheehan

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So much so "The EU and Nato have warned that Catalonia would be excluded if it broke away from Spain."
 

readytogo

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Good to see that even the Spanish socialists are opposed to this referendum:

Pérez Rubalcaba afirma que Mas 'plantea un referéndum de autodeterminación con el que los socialistas no estamos de acuerdo' - PSOE

The Generalitat lack legal competence in constitutional matters; they have about as much authority to convene an independence referendum as Kerry County Council. If the Generalitat attempts to hold this referendum, the Spanish government should immediately suspend the region's autonomy. This sedition is unconstitutional and shouldn't be tolerated.
 

Iphonista

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Rajoy is giving the big thumbs down.

Herman van Rompuy says he expects Spain will stay united. Who TF cares what he thinks?
 

Dame_Enda

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How would we feel if confronted by such threats if we were voting on leaving the UK (assuming we hadn't in 1922)?
 

readytogo

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How would we feel if confronted by such threats if we were voting on leaving the UK (assuming we hadn't in 1922)?
We rejected the idea that Ulster had a right to separate itself from the rest of Ireland, just like the Spaniards reject the idea that Catalonia has a right to separate itself from the rest of Spain.
 

Blokesbloke

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What is the significance of the two questions?

So let's say they vote "yes" to it being "a state", but "no" to it being an "independent state"?

What would that actually mean? They are already a region of Spain with a fair degree of autonomy, so what would being a non-independent "state" actually change or achieve?
 


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