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Catalan Parliament Approves Declaration Of Sovereignty


YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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The Catalan parliament has approved a "declaration of sovereignty" and Madrid is preponderantly p*ssed. The Catalan independence movement is a political movement, which supports the independence of Catalonia, the Catalan countries from Spain and France.

looks like one of the side effects of the EU are stronger regional independence movements. I would not be surprised to see a Catalan application to join the EU after a successful referendum on independence in 2014.
 


Mentalist Clientelist

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The Catalan parliament has approved a "declaration of sovereignty" and Madrid is preponderantly p*ssed. The Catalan independence movement is a political movement, which supports the independence of Catalonia, the Catalan countries from Spain and France.

looks like one of the side effects of the EU are stronger regional independence movements. I would not be surprised to see a Catalan application to join the EU after a successful referendum on independence in 2014.
I wouldn't be so sure about a succeesful referendum.

The Spanish football authorities have already said that they will not allow Barcelona or any other Catalan team into the Spanish league. Barcelona FC is one of the main outlets of Catalan culture. It may sound like a trivial matter but it isn't to alot of Catalans.
 

former wesleyan

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As this so-called independence is really a form of partition , what will happen to the non-Catalan population ?
 

sic transit

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The Catalan parliament has approved a "declaration of sovereignty" and Madrid is preponderantly p*ssed. The Catalan independence movement is a political movement, which supports the independence of Catalonia, the Catalan countries from Spain and France.

looks like one of the side effects of the EU are stronger regional independence movements. I would not be surprised to see a Catalan application to join the EU after a successful referendum on independence in 2014.
A further side effect would be an EU rejection and them having to deal with the big bad world with their own currency. The first effect of it would be the re-denomination of all their debt and then they'd have to refinance it.
 

Sync

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I wouldn't be so sure about a succeesful referendum.

The Spanish football authorities have already said that they will not allow Barcelona or any other Catalan team into the Spanish league. Barcelona FC is one of the main outlets of Catalan culture. It may sound like a trivial matter but it isn't to alot of Catalans.
It would go to court and barca and espanyol would win. There's multiple cases (most notably Swansea, Cardiff and Wrexham) where teams created and given entry to a league prior to their country having an FA were allowed to remain in that league. The prospects of ejecting them would seem slim.
 

statsman

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A small step on what will be a long road to a more truly federal Spain. The motion passed yesterday has no legal force, it's a purely political move. It wasn't a declaration of sovereignty, but a declaration for an enquiry or consultation on sovereignty. The next step will be to put forward legislation to give any such consultation a statutory basis, perhaps next week.

The interesting thing is that the momentum towards a more loose-knit Spain is happening under a distinctly right-wing government. That distant humming sound is Franco.
 

Spanner Island

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Anyone see Peter Sutherland speaking from Davos on Newsnight last night?

The arrogance of that pr!ck knows no end...

It looks like gobsh!tes like Peter are gonna be foisted on the British electorate now...

Apparently and according to Peter, the people of Europe are fine with all sorts of further integration and progressing towards an 'undefined destination' as he called it...

Complete f***wit... imo...


As for Catalonia... and Scotland... and Britain... I guess the harder the Eurocrats try and subsume us all into their USE, the more pockets of discontent and people vying to establish their distinct identity and place in this increasingly homogenous world will emerge...
 

friendlyfire

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It would go to court and barca and espanyol would win. There's multiple cases (most notably Swansea, Cardiff and Wrexham) where teams created and given entry to a league prior to their country having an FA were allowed to remain in that league. The prospects of ejecting them would seem slim.
So Charlie Green was right about his tribute club, they can join La liga or the English Premier league....and I though he was just waffling:roll:
 

statsman

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Anyone see Peter Sutherland speaking from Davos on Newsnight last night?

The arrogance of that pr!ck knows no end...

It looks like gobsh!tes like Peter are gonna be foisted on the British electorate now...

Apparently and according to Peter, the people of Europe are fine with all sorts of further integration and progressing towards an 'undefined destination' as he called it...

Complete f***wit... imo...


As for Catalonia... and Scotland... and Britain... I guess the harder the Eurocrats try and subsume us all into their USE, the more pockets of discontent and people vying to establish their distinct identity and place in this increasingly homogenous world will increase...
Scotland and Cataluña will both want in to the EU. If Cameron's referendum goes ahead it will give momentum to the Scottish Independence movement.
 

Spanner Island

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Scotland and Cataluña will both want in to the EU. If Cameron's referendum goes ahead it will give momentum to the Scottish Independence movement.
Perhaps... although the Scottish referendum on independence is going to be years before Cameron's EU poll (if it ever happens)...

Plus I suspect as the EU progresses and integrates further with the people being increasingly alienated from the process that more and more people will start questioning it and rejecting it...

Of course it may well be far too late to force this process to halt or change... which may or may not trigger more subversive and sinister responses to it...
 

statsman

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Perhaps... although the Scottish referendum on independence is going to be years before Cameron's EU poll (if it ever happens)...

Plus I suspect as the EU progresses and integrates further with the people being increasingly alienated from the process that more and more people will start questioning it and rejecting it...

Of course it may well be far too late to force this process to halt or change... which may or may not trigger more subversive and sinister responses to it...
You are free to consider the EU a process that must be halted, but you would be behaving in a remarkably foolish manner to assume that the majority of people share your view. If the Scots have any sense that the English will force them out of Europe, I feel fairly sure that they'll leave the Union. Up to yesterday I was confident that Scotland would vote no, but that has changed. As for the Catalans, they have no gripe with the EU; their problem is with Madrid. In fact yesterday's declaration calls, amongst others, for the European institutions to legitimise the process it launches.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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You are free to consider the EU a process that must be halted, but you would be behaving in a remarkably foolish manner to assume that the majority of people share your view. If the Scots have any sense that the English will force them out of Europe, I feel fairly sure that they'll leave the Union. Up to yesterday I was confident that Scotland would vote no, but that has changed. As for the Catalans, they have no gripe with the EU; their problem is with Madrid. In fact yesterday's declaration calls, amongst others, for the European institutions to legitimise the process it launches.
the scottish will have so much debt with Bank of England at the end of this banking crises that they will not have the choice. Scotland can't leave the union without creating major problem for England. The only way Scotland can go free is by defaulting on its obligations to England.
 

statsman

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the scottish will have so much debt with Bank of England at the end of this banking crises that they will not have the choice. Scotland can't leave the union without creating major problem for England. The only way Scotland can go free is by defaulting on its obligations to England.
Do you imagine for one moment that they'd be all that upset about defaulting on England?
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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Do you imagine for one moment that they'd be all that upset about defaulting on England?
most English people couldn't give a damn about Scotlands desire for independence. they couldn't care less if the Scots actually did break free.

but when it comes to money the English have absolutely no sense of humor whatsoever. they would force Scotland to pay every single schilling with interest it owes to English banks.
 
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Spanner Island

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You are free to consider the EU a process that must be halted
I'd like it either to be halted or completely redirected in a more transparent and accountable way...

,but you would be behaving in a remarkably foolish manner to assume that the majority of people share your view.
I don't... or at least not yet. If they keep going the way they're going this may well change regardless of whether 'establishments' and their mouthpieces believe it or not...

If the Scots have any sense that the English will force them out of Europe, I feel fairly sure that they'll leave the Union. Up to yesterday I was confident that Scotland would vote no, but that has changed.
Dunno about that... the Scots are increasingly between a rock and a hard place...

Leave Britain and they'll more than likely have to adopt the €uro...

Stay with Britain and they may well end up leaving the EU...

Plus Scotland ain't going to have the gas and oil forever and let's face it, if they were forced to fund the saving of RBS they'd be as f***ed as we are...

As for the Catalans, they have no gripe with the EU; their problem is with Madrid. In fact yesterday's declaration calls, amongst others, for the European institutions to legitimise the process it launches.
If Scotland gets independence the Catalans will want independence too...

And if the Catalans get independence and effectively cut off a major cash cow for Spain, I wouldn't bet much on the Spanish remaining too enthusiastic about the EU...

Swings and roundabouts... but of course the biggest problem with the EU is how aloof, disconnected, unaccountable and completely up its own arse it is...
 

statsman

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most English people couldn't give a damn about Scotlands desire for independence. they couldn't care less if the Scots actually break free.

but when it comes to money the English have absolutely no sense of humor whatsoever. they would force Scotland to pay every single schilling with interest it owes to English banks.
Perhaps, but as Cameron granted the referendum, the onus is on the London government to make the outcome work. A deal would be done.
 

Spanner Island

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Do you imagine for one moment that they'd be all that upset about defaulting on England?
If they defaulted on England what would be to stop them defaulting on anyone else...?

If they did that it could turn out that the 'markets' would charge Scotland extortionate rates to fund themselves and keep their ATMs functioning...

Plus if that happened it's not unimaginable that Anglo Scottish relations would turn very sour...

Those who are pro EU at all costs seem to see the world as a very bland place full of very bland people whereas the reality is that it's not...
 

statsman

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I'd like it either to be halted or completely redirected in a more transparent and accountable way...



I don't... or at least not yet. If they keep going the way they're going this may well change regardless of whether 'establishments' and their mouthpieces believe it or not...



Dunno about that... the Scots are increasingly between a rock and a hard place...

Leave Britain and they'll more than likely have to adopt the €uro...

Stay with Britain and they may well end up leaving the EU...

Plus Scotland ain't going to have the gas and oil forever and let's face it, if they were forced to fund the saving of RBS they'd be as f***ed as we are...



If Scotland gets independence the Catalans will want independence too...

And if the Catalans get independence and effectively cut off a major cash cow for Spain, I wouldn't bet much on the Spanish remaining too enthusiastic about the EU...

Swings and roundabouts... but of course the biggest problem with the EU is how aloof, disconnected, unaccountable and completely up its own arse it is...
It's going to be interesting to watch this pan out. Ultimately I don't believe that the UK will leave the EU, nor do I really believe that Scotland or the Catalans will go for full independence. They both may well end up as semi-autonomous regions of a federal Europe, which, in my view, wouldn't be a bad outcome. But if I'm wrong about the UK, then all bets are off.
 

statsman

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If they defaulted on England what would be to stop them defaulting on anyone else...?

If they did that it could turn out that the 'markets' would charge Scotland extortionate rates to fund themselves and keep their ATMs functioning...

Plus if that happened it's not unimaginable that Anglo Scottish relations would turn very sour...

Those who are pro EU at all costs seem to see the world as a very bland place full of bland people whereas the reality is that it's not...
Do you think we should default on our current debts?
 

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