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Catholic Cardinal says raping children not a crime.


bye bye mubarak

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BBC News - 'Paedophilia not criminal condition' says Durban cardinal
The BBC are reporting a catholic cardinal commentry on child abuse saying in some cicumstances is an illness not a crime. The Nolan radio show in Britain, had Cardinal Napier of Durban, and was drawn inti a conversation on child abuse.
Was Nolan that much cleverer than the Archbishop, or was it a case of the mask slipping and we see the real attitude of the catholic church to raping children.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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BBC News - 'Paedophilia not criminal condition' says Durban cardinal
The BBC are reporting a catholic cardinal commentry on child abuse saying in some cicumstances is an illness not a crime. The Nolan radio show in Britain, had Cardinal Napier of Durban, and was drawn inti a conversation on child abuse.
Was Nolan that much cleverer than the Archbishop, or was it a case of the mask slipping and we see the real attitude of the catholic church to raping children.
Definitely a case of the mask slipping and showing what they really think about children.
 

LamportsEdge

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I don't think he did say that in fairness. I recall reading the reports on this yesterday and I suspect he was angling for a different take- that paedophile clerics should be regarded as 'ill' rather than criminal.

It is still an attempt to evade the law by use of philosophy by that cardinal but I honestly don't think he said 'raping children is not a crime'.
 

Northtipp

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I don't think he did say that in fairness. I recall reading the reports on this yesterday and I suspect he was angling for a different take- that paedophile clerics should be regarded as 'ill' rather than criminal.

It is still an attempt to evade the law by use of philosophy by that cardinal but I honestly don't think he said 'raping children is not a crime'.
@BBCNolan: Nolan interview has caused controversy in the Catholic Church after a Cardinal told me he does not believe Paedophilia is always a crime
 

LamportsEdge

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It is a classic attempt by this senior cleric to have the debate recast to 'the poor priest who can't help raping children- sure the poor man is unwell'.

Still doesn't explain why the church didn't report the crimes. Or announce that they seemed to have an inordinate number of 'unwell' priests in ordination.
 

LamportsEdge

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@BBCNolan: Nolan interview has caused controversy in the Catholic Church after a Cardinal told me he does not believe Paedophilia is always a crime
Yes... he's going for the 'good Garda family' defence well known in Ireland when some little scrote gets caught in illegality and ends up with doctor's notes saying he is 'misunderstood' or some other cheesy nonsense associated with middle class attempts to evade the consequences of one's actions.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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I don't think he did say that in fairness. I recall reading the reports on this yesterday and I suspect he was angling for a different take- that paedophile clerics should be regarded as 'ill' rather than criminal.

It is still an attempt to evade the law by use of philosophy by that cardinal but I honestly don't think he said 'raping children is not a crime'.
It is all part of the smokescreen. The shrinks promoting the word ebophilia (spelling probably wrong), are also giving excuses to priests and all appear to have a very cosy relationship to the church.

Why this has been tolerated in our society, is beyond my comprehension.

The whole thing is a perverted house of cards and should be dismantled.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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Yes... he's going for the 'good Garda family' defence well known in Ireland when some little scrote gets caught in illegality and ends up with doctor's notes saying he is 'misunderstood' or some other cheesy nonsense associated with middle class attempts to evade the consequences of one's actions.
Now you are getting it.

I would drop the middle class bit though, although the point is well made. It pervades every strata of society.
 
D

Dylan2010

Its a bit like saying a serial killer is "ill" , i'm sure he is but still needs to be put out of circulation, any behaviour that would keep such an individual in circulation would also be criminal. Our cardinal friend is "confused"
 

LamportsEdge

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True. A rabid dog is 'ill' too but thats still not a valid defence in letting it run around near playgrounds. This cardinal may regret going down the road of opening a discussion on the psychology of clerical paedophiles.

In fact the US Conference of Bishops is doing its best to keep the psychological profiles they have on their lot quiet- and of course the German church which announced a year or two back they were opening their files up to the German Institute of Psychology performed a sudden u-turn a couple of months back and said they weren't going to co-operate any more.

I have a fair idea why as well. Senior churchmen don't like what they are seeing in the psychological profiles and the implication that seminary for certain personality types already damaged by the frantic catholic family 'keeping junior for god' is the a conveyor belt for diverted psycho-sexualities.

The one thing the church won't do is encourage any description of the effect dogma has on a 'prepared' and diverted adolescent or young man/woman. It is somewhere they can't afford to go.
 
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Iphonista

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Did the cardinal say that the act of child rape was okay? No.

There's a recognition that psychopaths are also "sick"'but a psychiatric professional saying such a thing wouldn't be accused of trying to minimise the act of psychopathic murder.

Treating paedophilia as just another crime ignores the fact that they need treatment as well as punishment.
 

wombat

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It is the responsibility of the state to decide what is a crime and what is an appropriate punishment. It really doesn't matter what he thinks any more than what Bono thinks.
 

LamportsEdge

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Did the cardinal say that the act of child rape was okay? No.

There's a recognition that psychopaths are also "sick"'but a psychiatric professional saying such a thing wouldn't be accused of trying to minimise the act of psychopathic murder.

Treating paedophilia as just another crime ignores the fact that they need treatment as well as punishment.
There is no known treatment. There are radical cures- chemical castration or drugging. But you are talking about a basic human function badly diverted and corrupted. It is not something that goes away with treatment because you'd have to deconstruct an entire psychology and re-build it.
 

Catalpast

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It is a classic attempt by this senior cleric to have the debate recast to 'the poor priest who can't help raping children- sure the poor man is unwell'.

Still doesn't explain why the church didn't report the crimes. Or announce that they seemed to have an inordinate number of 'unwell' priests in ordination.
Why didn't the parents go straight to the Police and report a crime

- rather than going to the Church to sort it out?

OK I that doesn't cover ALL cases - but I would say it covers most of them

On the OP I think the good Cardinal is wrong if he is being reported correctly

Sure that adults who abuse kids may well be mentally ill

- but that is no excuse
 

Toland

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Part of what he said is obviously true (at least to the extent that he said paedophilia is an illness), but it's also obviously an attempt to engage in indefensible apologetics.

It is not clear, by the way, that an act of illegality done due to an illness ceases to be a crime by virtue of the illness.

It is also yet another piece of evidence that the RCC senior heirarchy sees the issue of paedophilia (and ephebophilia) from the point of view of the perpretrator rather than from that of the victim.
 

LamportsEdge

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Why didn't the parents go straight to the Police and report a crime

- rather than going to the Church to sort it out?

OK I that doesn't cover ALL cases - but I would say it covers most of them

On the OP I think the good Cardinal is wrong if he is being reported correctly

Sure that adults who abuse kids may well be mentally ill

- but that is no excuse
Which case are you talking about when you say 'why didn't the parents go to the police'? This cardinal is making a general aircover excuse for clerical paedophiles in the hope of having the re-cast as pseudo-victims. It is quite clear what he is up to the old intellectual fraud- one among many in little red hats.

Serial killers are ill too- do they deserve our sympathy?
 

LamportsEdge

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What is also true is that in huge numbers these clerical paedophiles were compos mentis enough to be able to lie their way out of early accusations, fool bishops and get themselves re-assigned where they could strike again.

Sounds as if that in a courtroom would be good enough for being determined as capable to stand trial and face consequences.
 

bye bye mubarak

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Did the cardinal say that the act of child rape was okay? No.

There's a recognition that psychopaths are also "sick"'but a psychiatric professional saying such a thing wouldn't be accused of trying to minimise the act of psychopathic murder.

Treating paedophilia as just another crime ignores the fact that they need treatment as well as punishment.
It is absolutely true that people who rape children may be already damaged psychologically, but have committed a crime and deserve punishment. Some people who rape women may also be damaged, but they are punished, correctly.
 
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