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Catholic Unionists and Protestant Nationalists

Irish-Rationalist

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A 2014 BelTel poll on a border poll discovered that 22.8% of NI Catholics described themselves as "British". It also revealed that 20.6% of Catholic's wanted NI to remain part of the UK. 8.8% of Protestant's described themselves as "Irish, and 1.8% of Protestants said yes to Irish unification immediately, whilst a further 9.6% said yes to Irish unification in 20 years time.

Northern Ireland says 'yes' to a border poll... but a firm 'no' to united Ireland - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

The 20.6% of Catholic's who said they wanted NI to remain part of the UK are Unionists, even if many would be reluctant to describe themselves as such. Similarly, the combined total of 11.4% of Protestants in favour of a united Ireland, both immediately and in 20 years time, are Nationalists and aspiring Nationalists, even if many are reluctant to describe themselves in such terms.

It's interesting that the 2014 poll revealed that there were almost twice as many Catholic Unionists as there were Protestant Nationalists. Many university educated, middle class, career oriented Catholic's no doubt view the union as offering a wider gateway to career success, whilst those Protestant's with Nationalist aspirations perhaps possess a greater knowledge and understanding of Irish history, and consequently empathise with the Nationalist cause.

Whatever their motives and despite their surprising numbers, Protestant Nationalists and Catholic Unionist's are still political minorities and thin on the ground. On the positive, instead of passive conformity to traditional tribal allegiances, they've obviously taken the time to give the situation some thought, and have come to their position by thinking outside of the box, and on the basis of rational analysis and conclusion.

The negative of course is that Protestant Nationalist's would be viewed as "Lundies, traitors and sell-outs" by their own tribe, and perhaps viewed with some wariness and suspicion by traditional Catholic Nationalists. Similarly, Catholic Unionist's would be viewed as unpatriotic Irishmen by many other Catholics, and traditional Protestant Unionist's, whilst glad of Catholic support for the union, would no doubt still tend to view them as belonging to the other tribe.

And that is essentially the crux of it. Born into the Protestant tribe, it's almost as if you are coerced to be Unionist by default. Born a Catholic, many would argue that there is a historical imperative to be Nationalist. To not toe the traditional ideological line may be construed as treachery.

Abandoning the default position and embracing the ideology of the other is viewed as being a turncoat, which isn't exactly a positive attribute. What sort of person would want to put themselves in such a position; where they are scorned and ridiculed by the tribe they grew up within, and perhaps rejected, not fully accepted, or viewed with wariness and suspicion by the tribe whose ideology they just cannot for the life of them disagree with, and consequently feel compelled to support?

It must be a hard life being a Catholic Unionist or a Protestant Nationalist.

Traitors? Or people of conscience and courage?
 


belfast1981

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Not traitors, not people of conscience and courage... but simply people who are enlightened enough to make up their own minds on the matter of a 32 county Ireland vs Northern Ireland staying part of the UK, without being mindless sheep hiding behind their sides 'Christian' religious denomination to justify a separate political view.
 

Enigma Variations

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A reasonable attempt at creating a debate on a subject that shouldn't cause offence to either side, yet some people still find offence and the trolling begins ?
Back on topic, a lot of Catholic "remain-in-the-union" supporters and some Protestant unionists are "soft" in their support and would be prepared to switch to supporting a united Ireland if the economic conditions gave them a reasonable guarantee of being at least as well off as they are at present. Scotland is an example of how things can change in a few decades.
 

between the bridges

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Wat ye on about JB, ye seeing things...
 

ardsman

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Is this united Oireland crack still being talked about? Ffs lads do yas not know when the fat lady has sung. Yas need to change the record it's just obsessive pathetic nansense at this stage...
 

ardsman

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The sensible way to unite Ireland, that would be in everyone's interest, would be for the ROI to swallow its pride and rejoin the UK.
Oh aye but that wud never happen cus...it's not really about uniting Ireland it's about "brits out". Otherwise a united Oireland within the UK wud be a serious consideration. But nah its a United Oireland within the EU ruled by Germany and the 26 other foreign countries which is the mythical nirvana...
 

IrishFreedom

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The sensible way to unite Ireland, that would be in everyone's interest, would be for the ROI to swallow its pride and rejoin the UK.
You had your chance a century and threw it away so nope we're quite content, even if things seem really bad, after all why did unionists throw a hissy fit when home rule was proposed eh?

Look if it simply creates a fifth parliament within the UK then no there'd be zero point if the northern unionists refused to come down to Dublin.
 
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IrishFreedom

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In English?

Why would a devolved Parliament within the UK have to be based in Dublin my plastic friend? Dublin isn't Ireland .....
Hang on a minute wasn't the british administration in Ireland governing from Dublin before the Home Rule crisis and no you hate anything that has to do with Irishness like the GAA, Irish Language and things which don't fit into the british story of their attempt in exterminating Irishness not fitting into their imperial tale.

You only call posters plastic if your'e unable to deal with facts that contradict the unionist narrative but hey carry on with your faux deception and being a glutton for punishment.
 

Cruimh

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Hang on a minute wasn't the british administration in Ireland governing from Dublin before the Home Rule crisis and no you hate anything that has to do with Irishness like the GAA, Irish Language and things which don't fit into the british story of their attempt in exterminating Irishness not fitting into their imperial tale.

You only call posters plastic if your'e unable to deal with facts that contradict the unionist narrative but hey carry on with your faux deception and being a glutton for punishment.
I'd still like a translation from your earlier post.

Dublin didn't work out so well before the Home Rule Crisis and it hasn't worked out well after it. Daniel Corkery and others argued there should never be a Dublin Taoiseach as Dubs don't understand Ireland .....

A hint sonny - only plastics use "cute" usernames like OirishFreedom and have racist signatures as gaeilge - which they feel the need to translate ;)
 

belfast1981

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A reasonable attempt at creating a debate on a subject that shouldn't cause offence to either side, yet some people still find offence and the trolling begins ?

Back on topic, a lot of Catholic "remain-in-the-union" supporters and some Protestant unionists are "soft" in their support and would be prepared to switch to supporting a united Ireland if the economic conditions gave them a reasonable guarantee of being at least as well off as they are at present. Scotland is an example of how things can change in a few decades.
hmmm, not sure if you meant this at me as I was the only comment above you lol. Was not trolling nor offended, simply my view that in 2016 religious views and political views can be separate and people make up their own minds rather than what side their 'side' in religion has historic view of supporting. .
 

Ó Ghabhainn

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The sensible way to unite Ireland, that would be in everyone's interest, would be for the ROI to swallow its pride and rejoin the UK.
Question. Do you support Brexit?

And you want the Republic to rejoin the UK, up against the electorate of England? Sure, like that that'll happen.

And on this here, again many support Brexit due to democratic deficit. But they are unionists despite demographic deficit, even though they don't trust Westminster.

Funny old world...but then everyone's got their own reasons and that's the reality of it.
 

Irish-Rationalist

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The sensible way to unite Ireland, that would be in everyone's interest, would be for the ROI to swallow its pride and rejoin the UK.
A voluntary re-union, post Irish unification, and in the distant future, with both Britain and an independent Ireland entering into a voluntary union, with both island's remaining autonomous, self governing and not poking their nose into one another's domestic affairs, is not an outlandish concept. Give it at least 150-200 years post Irish unification, and with the stipulation that Ireland shall never be governed nor subordinate to Britain ever again. A voluntary union of equal, independent, nations and for mutual benefit ..to be put to both electorates.
 

Catalpast

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Oh aye but that wud never happen cus...it's not really about uniting Ireland it's about "brits out". Otherwise a united Oireland within the UK wud be a serious consideration. But nah its a United Oireland within the EU ruled by Germany and the 26 other foreign countries which is the mythical nirvana...
A United Ireland within the UK was what was on offer 1912-1914

The Unionists rejected it
 

Irish-Rationalist

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Oh aye but that wud never happen cus...it's not really about uniting Ireland it's about "brits out". Otherwise a united Oireland within the UK wud be a serious consideration. But nah its a United Oireland within the EU ruled by Germany and the 26 other foreign countries which is the mythical nirvana...
Like most Unionists, I'm aware that the English language, diction and grammar are a challenge, and that the Ulster-Scot's dialect is an impediment to effective communication. Nevertheless, I get the gist of what you have attempted to convey. There is a place for British people in a unified Ireland, just as the RoI is home to many British nationals at present. RoI withdrawal from the EU is the best way forward, as the EU's immigration policy erodes Irish national sovereignty and cultural independence.
 
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Irish-Rationalist

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Hang on a minute wasn't the british administration in Ireland governing from Dublin before the Home Rule crisis and no you hate anything that has to do with Irishness like the GAA, Irish Language and things which don't fit into the british story of their attempt in exterminating Irishness not fitting into their imperial tale.

You only call posters plastic if your'e unable to deal with facts that contradict the unionist narrative but hey carry on with your faux deception and being a glutton for punishment.
Unionist's are hopeless at accepting historical fact; that their 'wee country' came into existence via British government exclusion policy and on the basis of a sectarian headcount, and is an imposed, undemocratic 6 county colony and remnant of British imperialism in Ireland. If you put put an alternative viewpoint to the Unionist, he will reject it on the basis that it is not his viewpoint, and must consequently therefore be wrong. Heads and arses.
 

PeacefulViking

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Nationalist and Unionist also describe cultural identities, not just political views and the Protestants who support a united Ireland may still value their British heritage, which probably would like it unlikely to call them Nationalists.
 

between the bridges

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Unionist's are hopeless at accepting historical fact; that their 'wee country' came into existence via British government exclusion policy and on the basis of a sectarian headcount, and is an imposed, undemocratic 6 county colony and remnant of British imperialism in Ireland. If you put put an alternative viewpoint to the Unionist, he will reject it on the basis that it is not his viewpoint, and must consequently therefore be wrong. Heads and arses.
Ya mean like ye just did, Muppet...
 

Cruimh

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Question. Do you support Brexit?

And you want the Republic to rejoin the UK, up against the electorate of England? Sure, like that that'll happen.

And on this here, again many support Brexit due to democratic deficit. But they are unionists despite demographic deficit, even though they don't trust Westminster.

Funny old world...but then everyone's got their own reasons and that's the reality of it.
No, I don't support Brexit. But if it happens the natural geo-politial unit would be our common archipelago.
 


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