CCCP T-Shirt 'fashion'

LordJagged

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What's the story with this?
Do these people not realise how offensive these T shirts are?
Might as well have a swastika on your shirt!
I have a Latvian mate who says he is going to smack the next muppet he sees wearing one of these [two of his grandparents died in the Gulag].

Thundering gobshittery or wilful historical ignorance?
 


Danny

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What's the story with this?
Do these people not realise how offensive these T shirts are?
Might as well have a swastika on your shirt!
I have a Latvian mate who says he is going to smack the next muppet he sees wearing one of these [two of his grandparents died in the Gulag].

Thundering gobshittery or wilful historical ignorance?
I'm afraid I dont follow. What's on these shirts?
 

Conor

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Thundering gobshittery or wilful historical ignorance?

Ignorance, but not necessarily wilful.

Not all historical ignorance is wilful. Is it Danny?

;)
 

LordJagged

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the T Shirts just have:

CCCP

sometimes with a wee hammer and sickle.

Maybe the wearers are being ironic and cool in this 'terrible capitalist age', but I reckon it's just a case of thundering gobshittery.

[Edited on 27/8/2004 by LordJagged]
 

geraghd

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CCCP: The Cambridge Conference of Contemporary Poetry??
 

cain1798

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Hmmmmm.

As the owner of one or two items of clothing or decoration with overtones of the Soviet Union or Eastern Bloc nations (Thanks to Wednesday for the postcard of Tito's tomb) I'd better avoid your Latvian friend.

They appeal to me personally out of my sense of black humour more than anything else. At its most political, a nostalgia not for what emerged from the 1917 Revolution, but for that was intended. That woiuld be about as political as it would get.

And while I accept, and agree to a large extent that compared to Hitler's crimes, those of Stalin for example have never got the same level of media coverage or seeped into popular culture as much (Though I think that's gradually beginning to change) the crimes, of the most obscene manner perpetrated by the United States in the name of 'democracy' are even less well known.

A lot of people on the left, including myself, opposed both the Soviet Union and the United States on the basis that really, it was a struggle between two imperialist powers, happy to support or crush foreign democracy whenever it suited them. In terms of internal regiemes obviously that of the United States was infinetly preferable, but externally they were much of a muchness.

So probably yeah, there is an element of carelessness, certainly not a desire to give offense. I think as well it should be understood, obviously this is not in the case of the CCCP shirts, that some socialist symbols, the red star for example, the red flag etc. are symbols of a political movement, and belong to no one state or individual.

There does seem to be an unacceptable level of dictator chic though. The restaurant in town called Mao's for example strikes me as bizarre. What chance a bratwurst store called Hitler's? And I have never really got over seeing a poster of Joe Stalin in a comrade's house. Most bizarrely of all, he was a former Labour member.
 

agora

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The cccp logo, like Mao's face, has become completely detached from the actual original political meaning, it's just another meaningless logo for people to label themselves by, it has lost its original power, unless of course you're a gymnast, in which case wearing a cccp top would probably be quite inspiring for you.
 

LordJagged

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I'll ask my mate from Latvia if as a 'logo' it has lost any of it's meaning.

If you wore a CCCP shirt in any of the countries occupied/controlled by the soviets in the past you would get the same response as if you were to have a game of handball at the Wailing Wall sporting a small black moustache.

As we are all Europeans now, the response should be no different here.



[Edited on 27/8/2004 by LordJagged]
 

agora

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I never said it was right, personally I think people who wear those shirts are idiots. But the fact is that most people don't have any real understanding of what the CCCP logo actually represents for people in Eastern Europe, just as most people who have Mao's face on their cushions would probably stare blankly at you if you mentioned the cultural revolution or Chang Kai-Shek or unorthodox methods of increasing steel production. For most ordinary people, the end of the Cold War meant the end of the Bogeyman with whom they (or their parents) were threatened for so long, but whose nature was never really understood in the West. For people in Eastern Europe and intelligent people here, the symbol does still mean something (though exactly what will depend somewhat on your political perspective), but sadly for most of society it doesn't anymore, it's a harmless joke. That may be unfortunate, but that's the way it is.
 

geraghd

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so what does CCCP stand for then?
 

odyssey

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Is it illegal in Ireland to walk around bearing a swastika under some sort of incitement to hatred law? Does some enterprising laywer want to bring a similar case against CCCP T-Shirt sellers?
 

revereie

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'We're all victims!'

C'mon, PC gone too far ! I'm obviously not a fan of the soviet regime but can't see the harm in an irish guy wearing one as a fashion statement - i would think otherwise if he was wearing it as a political statement, but i wouldn't get het-up about it.
 

LordJagged

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.....but you would get 'het up' about a guy wearing a swastika as a fashion item, in ignorance or otherwise, and the point is that it is equally offensive to wear soviet/socialist/communist paraphernalia.
Political Correctness has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.
 

LordJagged

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....yeah, and they can expect a smack if it's offensive too.

I'm off to get a 'Sniper at Work' T Shirt from Parnell square....

eh, No.
 


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