Cetic Tiger ROARS on.

freedomlover

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Actually GDP grew by 5.8 per cent and GNP by 3.8 per cent in Ireland in 2001. Some downturn. Many countries in the continental EU haven't achieved those rates of growth since the 1960s. If you're going to say that, because Ireland has become so accustomed to growing at 3 times the average EU-rate, that a period of growth at merely 2 times the average EU-rate will seem like a recession, that's like saying that the fans of a football who have got accustomed to winning every match 3-1 will think the team is doing badly if they continue to win every match, but only by 2-1.
 


ibis

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freedomlover said:
Actually GDP grew by 5.8 per cent and GNP by 3.8 per cent in Ireland in 2001. Some downturn. Many countries in the continental EU haven't achieved those rates of growth since the 1960s. If you're going to say that, because Ireland has become so accustomed to growing at 3 times the average EU-rate, that a period of growth at merely 2 times the average EU-rate will seem like a recession, that's like saying that the fans of a football who have got accustomed to winning every match 3-1 will think the team is doing badly if they continue to win every match, but only by 2-1.
Hence "staggered", rather than some more dramatic term. Anyway, I don't want to interrupt your cheerleading - it's clear that nothing is wrong, and nothing could be wrong, in your best of all possible Irelands.
 

blindjustice

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There is nothing wrong with having over 15% of your workforce building houses is there? I wonder what that % would be if you could include garden centers, DIY, builders providers, solicitors, estate agents and anyone else who benefits from the housing boom?


We depend on it now - its gone on too long. We should have had a minor recession after 2001 and now we could be beginning another genuine boom like Germany and would in a perfect position for the interest rate rises.

We wont be building 90,000 houses every year. We wont need all those builders. The ONE IN SEVEN men in this country who are building houses - what will they do?
 

freedomlover

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We don't have 15 per cent of our population building houses. CSO figures out on Tuesday showed 2074.9 thousand people in employment in Ireland, of whom 282.1 thousand worked in construction. That's 13.6 per cent. But, that's the figure for all construction, including not just houses, but office blocks, shopping centres, roads, bridges, factories, industrial estates etc etc. The proportion building houses is far less than 13.6 per cent. Do you seriously think that, in a country with the fastest-rising population in the developed world, the demand is for new houses is going to fall to zero? Ireland is the first country in the history of the world where the government was slammed because such a large proportion of the population could afford to buy new houses.
 

farnaby

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blindjustice said:
We wont be building 90,000 houses every year. We wont need all those builders. The ONE IN SEVEN men in this country who are building houses - what will they do?
Get paid for repairing the seriously shoddy work they did building the houses in the first place. It's all part of the plan...
 

parentheses

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Latest figures on the economy make nonsense of politically-motivated
claims that the economy is heading for recession.
In the past week alone
the CSO has released the following figures:

(1) manufacturing output UP 13.9 per cent in volume in the first quarter

(2) retail sales UP 7.2 per cent in volume in the first quarter

(3) An increase in employment of 76,000 in the first quarter of 2007 as
compared with a year ago.

In short, the Celtic Tiger ROARS on. The only evidence for a slowdown is
that two economic forecasting organsations predict it. These are ESRI and
DAVY. So, its illuminating to look at the past record of these two
organisations. The only question to be asked is whether their hopeless
forecasting record is the result of incompetence or whether its because
their forecasts are politically-motivated.

From the Irish Times - 28 September 2001:

"ESRI is predicting growth of 2 per cent in 2002"

FACT:

the eventual outcome was that GDP grew by 6.0 per cent in 2002 and
GNP grew by 3.2 per cent in 2002

From the The Observer - 21 October 2001:

"Robbie Kelleher, of Davy Stockbrokers, said the economy had fallen off
a cliff and that growth in 2002 would be minus 3 or 4 per cent"

FACT:

the eventual outcome was that GDP grew by 6.0 per cent in 2002 and
GNP grew by 3.2 per cent in 2002

From the Irish Times - 8 July 2003:

"ESRI has cut its growth forecasts for this year. It has revised down its
Gross Domestic Product (GDP) forecast for 2003 from 3 per cent to 2.6"

FACT:

the eventual outcome was that GDP grew by 4.3 per cent in 2003

From the Irish Times - 14 April 2004:

"In its latest economic forecast, Davy predicts that growth will slow to
2.6 per cent in 2005"

FACT:

the eventual outcome was that GDP grew by 5.5 per cent in 2005 and
GNP grew by 5.4 per cent in 2005

From the Irish Times - 11 August 2005:

"Stockbroking firm Davy has lowered its forecasts for growth in GNP in
2006 to 4 per cent"

FACT:

the eventual outcome was that GDP grew by 7.4 per cent in 2005
Another thread needing a bump.
 

brigg

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The mentality of the OP can be summed up as
We shall have infinite growth... house prices will rise and rise and rise.... get on the property ladder now, before its too late... the boom will get boomier... more housing estates in Ballygobackwards, more hotels, more golf courses for ever and ever! It will never end! EVER!
 

P Ryan

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A lot of people such as the original poster on this thread have probably topped themselves off in the intervening years. :D
 

TropicalCandy

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A lot of people such as the original poster on this thread have probably topped themselves off in the intervening years
No they haven't, they've just switched to whoring themselves to the new conventional wisdom - 4 years of Austerity and we'll recover.

The type like first poster are not people with core beliefs they're groupthinkers, they basically follow the dominant beleif of the day, if it was the Soviet Union in 1975 they'd be claiming the party will lead us to communism by 1984.
 

The Cat

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There are a lot of people who made a lot of money during the boom, they still have it. They will make even more during the recession, buying proprty at rock botto prices. I saw some mention of a multi-million euro plot of land being rebought by the original seller for a tiny fraction of the price he had sold it at. Such is capitalism.
 

yellowfish

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Last activity : 25th September 2008 12:15 PM.

A couple of days before the bank guarantee......
I was looking at that date on the Irish times, apparently consumer confidence was picking up! no one knew what was happening even as it happened. Posters like the op vanished very quickly, I wonder how many posters from that time have experienced drastic change, maybe they have emigrated, lost homes and businesses, jobs.
Is anyone posting now who was an Adult in 2007 unaffected? such a short time.
 

Barnsleyfc

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One suspects that many of these posters are still here under different usernames.It's always interesting to look back on this type of threads if depressing aswell when it reminds you just what a difference less than 5 years makes.
 

TropicalCandy

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There are a lot of people who made a lot of money during the boom, they still have it. They will make even more during the recession, buying proprty at rock botto prices. I saw some mention of a multi-million euro plot of land being rebought by the original seller for a tiny fraction of the price he had sold it at. Such is capitalism.
A lot of people made a lot of money off the crash itself.

People seem to think a market going down only bankrupts people. You can make money off a crash if you know how. A lot of the people making cash off the 2008 one at home and abroad were causing part of the crash, the mortgage element, intentionally for just that purpose and leveraging the cash they got from their scam to the hilt to play it on other trades in the hopes of making even more, but they forgot how many people were doing the same thing in other firms and the sheer scale of what they'd done started got away from them.

Then, these people who had spent the last decade lecturing us on the free market and who thought of themselves as genius's, especially the guys at Goldman who really internalized their own bulls1it, came to the rest of us with a begging bowl, right to the big government they had spent the last 10-20 years complaining was getting in their way, even though it was that 'big govts' deregulation that had led to them making a fortune on their scams to begin with.

This bailout, and the crash they caused that required the bailout, bankrupted governments, then they started another scam, sell us the bailout money we gave them at nearly 0percent back to us at 6percent so we can keep govt services running, and get all snotty about it, as if it was our fault not theirs we needed the money.

Then came yet another scam when we could no longer afford the bondholders most of whom we'd just bailed out gouging us on rates selling us our own money back, we go to the IMF and ECB who did the investors who crashed the world a big favor: attach conditions to the loans to privatize state assets those investors can chop up and make a fortune off...oh it won't matter if the services get ruined along the way, long as Citigroup get their cut of the scam.

You couldn't make it up, and after all that, the 'don't be a naysayer' crowed who were banging the celtic tiger drum turn around and say ''ah we spent too much money'' , ''we weren't as fiscally prudent as the Germans'', ''wages were too high dats wot did it'', ''austerity for a few years will get us out of it'' they don't need the property market anymore, they've found a whole new set of fictions to believe in. Its funny many of them who admitted they were wrong about the CT still misdiagnosed what went wrong with it and see it as redemption for them to call for vicious cuts because they think the problem was overspending.
 
Last edited:

greenwithirony

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A lot of people made a lot of money off the crash itself.

People seem to think a market going down only bankrupts people. You can make money off a crash if you know how. A lot of the people making cash off the 2008 one at home and abroad were causing part of the crash, the mortgage element, intentionally for just that purpose and leveraging the cash they got from their scam to the hilt to play it on other trades in the hopes of making even more, but they forgot how many people were doing the same thing in other firms and the sheer scale of what they'd done started got away from them.

Then, these people who had spent the last decade lecturing us on the free market and who thought of themselves as genius's, especially the guys at Goldman who really internalized their own bulls1it, came to the rest of us with a begging bowl, right to the big government they had spent the last 10-20 years complaining was getting in their way, even though it was that 'big govts' deregulation that had led to them making a fortune on their scams to begin with.

This bailout, and the crash they caused that required the bailout, bankrupted governments, then they started another scam, sell us the bailout money we gave them at nearly 0percent back to us at 6percent so we can keep govt services running, and get all snotty about it, as if it was our fault not theirs we needed the money.

Then came yet another scam when we could no longer afford the bondholders most of whom we'd just bailed out gouging us on rates selling us our own money back, we go to the IMF and ECB who did the investors who crashed the world a big favor: attach conditions to the loans to privatize state assets those investors can chop up and make a fortune off...oh it won't matter if the services get ruined along the way, long as Citigroup get their cut of the scam.

You couldn't make it up, and after all that, the 'don't be a naysayer' crowed who were banging the celtic tiger drum turn around and say ''ah we spent too much money'' , ''we weren't as fiscally prudent as the Germans'', ''wages were too high dats wot did it'', ''austerity for a few years will get us out of it'' they don't need the property market anymore, they've found a whole new set of fictions to believe in. Its funny many of them who admitted they were wrong about the CT still misdiagnosed what went wrong with it and see it as redemption for them to call for vicious cuts because they think the problem was overspending.
In a nutshell!
 
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Id love to know what ever happened to Digout, last I heard he was going to take some fireworks to the Ministry of finance! Didnt he also start some new group and make a declaration to the government?
 

Ren84

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Bet the OP feels like a right lemon. Then again these sort of people usually don't have any shame.
 


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