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Change the citizenship laws

eric_31

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
8
Changes to citizenship laws

Published in The Sunday Business Post
Original http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/12/24/story19772.asp
Sunday, December 24, 2006 -

Under Irish nationality law created in 1956, anyone with a great-grandparent, grandparent or parent who was from Ireland was eligible for citizenship by descent.

However, the law was changed in 1984 and members of the Irish diaspora whose closest link to Ireland was a great-grandparent no longer qualified for citizenship by descent.

As the years go by, fewer and fewer members of the Irish diaspora will have grandparents who were born in Ireland.

Today, the Republic of Ireland is allowing huge numbers of foreigners to come to Ireland, but current citizenship by descent laws are keeping Irish people out of their homeland. But why should someone from Poland be able to show up in Ireland tomorrow and start working and living there instantly, yet an Irish person from the US doing the same would be an illegal immigrant, subject to arrest and deportation?

I propose that the law be reverted to allow citizenship by descent to be claimed by those with an Irish great-grandparent and that the Irish government explore the possibility of extending citizenship to all people with Irish ancestry.

I have lots of Irish ancestors, but my closest link to Ireland is my great-grandmother who came to the US as a child. Until the law is changed, I will not be able to obtain Irish citizenship.

Eric Hafner, New Jersey, US.
 


badinage

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Oct 21, 2004
Messages
776
eric_31 said:
But why should someone from Poland be able to show up in Ireland tomorrow and start working and living there instantly, yet an Irish person from the US doing the same would be an illegal immigrant, subject to arrest and deportation?
Because Poles are EU citizens and Americans aren't.


eric_31 said:
I have lots of Irish ancestors, but my closest link to Ireland is my great-grandmother who came to the US as a child. Until the law is changed, I will not be able to obtain Irish citizenship.
Why should we grant you citizenship?
 

paypal

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Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
33
"Because Poles are EU citizens and Americans aren't. "

Actually in this matter Ireland, as it often does, discriminates against members of the Irish diaspora, despite the mumbo jumbo in the Constitution that replaced Articles 2 and 3.

The fact is that I know of several EU countries--Spain and Italy to name two--who give citizenship based on a proven blood line that goes to the great-grandparent stage. This means that an American, or perhaps more often a South American, who can prove a direct Spanish heritage can become a Spanish citizen. That person could come and live in Ireland, but an Irish-American can't. The same goes for Argentinians of Irish ancestry--if they an establish Spanish ancestry they can live & work in Ireland, but if they have Irish ancestry they can't!

There's also the usual question of the hypocrisy of the Irish. They want the US to continue taking Irish immigrants, yet refuse to accept US immigrants.

And of course Poles know nothing and care less about Ireland, they're just here for the money. On the other hand, countless Irish Americans who have immersed themselves in the history, culture and language of their ancestors are treated worse by the Irish state than any Latvian or Pole who can walk straight thru Dublin Airport.

I wouldn't expect any change on this, however. Irish people look upon themselves as units of production, worker bees--they have no concept of Irishness as membership of an ancient national family.
 

Twin Towers

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Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
5,890
Of course those of Irelands diaspora should have first rights to residence and citizenship if return is what they wish. You go to the front of the queue as far as i am concerned.

Our destiny unfortunately is not decided by us in this new Ireland rather it is decided for us, by people we dont even know never mind elect.
 

Corcaigh33

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Oct 9, 2006
Messages
86
Agree with the bloodline argument described above. Also agree that the Tiger has gobbled up our notion of nationhood to a large degree - the euro is more important than the shamrock now as evidence by many of the posters here.

And for the record when I say shamrock, I mean all elements of it - the green, the orange, the history the culture, the language(s) and all that our new found friends from around Europe will bring to the mix.

It's why I voted No in the citizenship referendum - if your born here you are Irish.
 

Conor

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5,207
Twin Towers said:
Our destiny unfortunately is not decided by us in this new Ireland rather it is decided for us, by people we dont even know never mind elect.
No it isn't. The acquisition of and entitlement to Irish citizenship is as determined by the Oireachtas, which is comprised of elected representatives.

If it concerns you greatly, why not send your local TD a letter explaining why you think people with Irish great-grandparents should be entitled to Irish citizenship? It's important to make your voice heard.
 

paypal

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Nov 1, 2006
Messages
33
I did a quick internet search on Polish citizenship law and found the following:

"Polish nationality law is based upon the principles of Jus sanguinis. Children born to Polish parents usually acquire citizenship irrespective of place of birth. Persons born in Poland to foreign parents do not normally become Polish citizens."

Looks like the Poles would have voted the same way as did 80% of us in the Citizenship referendum. Fortunately that vote means that we no longer have the ludicrous situation where the many children now being born to Poles in Ireland would automatically have been Irish citizens.
 

Twin Towers

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Conor said:
No it isn't. The acquisition of and entitlement to Irish citizenship is as determined by the Oireachtas, which is comprised of elected representatives.
I wonder about elected representatives Conor and how representative they really are.

Will we even hear the issue raised by Mr Hafner from any of their mouths?

Conor said:
If it concerns you greatly, why not send your local TD a letter explaining why you think people with Irish great-grandparents should be entitled to Irish citizenship? It's important to make your voice heard.
P.ie is a better way of engaging with TD's than snailmail we should encourage our sitting and hopeful TD's to come here. A required 2 threads per week from each or no money :)
 

White Horse

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Jun 13, 2006
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7,065
eric_31 said:
Until the law is changed, I will not be able to obtain Irish citizenship.

Eric Hafner, New Jersey, US.
I agree that it is important to recognise the Irishness of those people who are born outside of Ireland with Irish ancestors.

They should have a right of residence in Ireland and should be able to apply for citizenship after a number of years of living here.
 

Conor

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Apr 7, 2004
Messages
5,207
Twin Towers said:
Conor said:
No it isn't. The acquisition of and entitlement to Irish citizenship is as determined by the Oireachtas, which is comprised of elected representatives.
I wonder about elected representatives Conor and how representative they really are.

Will we even hear the issue raised by Mr Hafner from any of their mouths?
Probably not, unless someone asks them to. If you care about it, why don't you?
 

CapitalistDog

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Jan 9, 2007
Messages
2
eric_31 said:
I have lots of Irish ancestors, but my closest link to Ireland is my great-grandmother who came to the US as a child. Until the law is changed, I will not be able to obtain Irish citizenship.

Eric Hafner, New Jersey, US.
Eric, if your nearest link to Ireland was your great-grandmother, then I'm sorry, but you're not Irish - you're clearly an American (albeit with Irish roots). Its good to be proud of your heritage and to know where you came from but why would you possibly want to be an Irish Citizen now, given that you have presumably have no close ties here? Are you not happy or proud to be an American?

We really can't grant you citizenship just because you'd like it.

Also, I was a pit put off by the tone of your post which seemed to suggest we should grant more of the diaspora citizenship in order to keep Ireland "celtic" or something.
 

Jozer

Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
57
eric_31 said:
Changes to citizenship laws

Published in The Sunday Business Post
Original http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/12/24/story19772.asp
Sunday, December 24, 2006 -

Under Irish nationality law created in 1956, anyone with a great-grandparent, grandparent or parent who was from Ireland was eligible for citizenship by descent.

However, the law was changed in 1984 and members of the Irish diaspora whose closest link to Ireland was a great-grandparent no longer qualified for citizenship by descent.

As the years go by, fewer and fewer members of the Irish diaspora will have grandparents who were born in Ireland.

Today, the Republic of Ireland is allowing huge numbers of foreigners to come to Ireland, but current citizenship by descent laws are keeping Irish people out of their homeland. But why should someone from Poland be able to show up in Ireland tomorrow and start working and living there instantly, yet an Irish person from the US doing the same would be an illegal immigrant, subject to arrest and deportation?

I propose that the law be reverted to allow citizenship by descent to be claimed by those with an Irish great-grandparent and that the Irish government explore the possibility of extending citizenship to all people with Irish ancestry.

I have lots of Irish ancestors, but my closest link to Ireland is my great-grandmother who came to the US as a child. Until the law is changed, I will not be able to obtain Irish citizenship.

Eric Hafner, New Jersey, US.
This post sums up what is wrong with 'Irish-Americans'. Very similar attitude to the American Jews who insist on their 'right' to own a holiday home in Israel/Palestine. Whoops, meant to say 'fulfill their religious destiny' :roll:
 

ryano

Active member
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
173
Twin Towers said:
P.ie is a better way of engaging with TD's than snailmail we should encourage our sitting and hopeful TD's to come here.
It really isn't. Why not just send them an email?
 

angelcountry

Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
54
What we should do or what we can do is to make a form available to them
To fill and they'll be granted two years.

However,after that two year they'll then fill in another form for their final
Three years that will make them a citizen of ireland/european citizen
Because they're different from the rest of people who want to become
Irish citizen in the island of IRELAND. :lol:

''I AM PROUD TO BE IRISH IN THE EUROPEAN ARCHIPELAGO'' :D


Furthermore,i will make sure it's inserted into the ''NEXT ELECTION''you
Never i might get a ''SEAT IN THE NEXT DAIL'' 8) :lol:
 

zakalwe

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
171
i wholeheartedly agree with the original poster's sentiment.

my mother was born and raised in america (which probably explains many things about me!!!) from irish/danish grandparents. she had far far more right to come make a home in ireland than 95% of the current immigrants into ireland today. don't get me wrong, i think ireland needs the current flow of immigrants (albeit on a work permit/visa system rather than the abuse of refugee/student visas going on today) but why should mr x from the middle east, africa or china with absolutely no connection with ireland or command of english have as much a right to come to ireland as the decendents of those forced to leave during the famine?

jozer,

if mr hafner just wanted a holiday home, as you put it, he could just buy one with money. there is no restriction on irish or non irish citizens purchasing homes (holiday or otherwise). he is talking about citizenship, about playing some part in irish society (whether from the US or here). he believes, as do i and a few other posters on this thread, that his irish ancestry should allow him to do that.
 

Conor

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Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
5,207
zakalwe said:
why should mr x from the middle east, africa or china with absolutely no connection with ireland or command of english have as much a right to come to ireland as the decendents of those forced to leave during the famine?
Well, why should the descendants of someone who left during the famine have a greater right to come here than Mr X from China?
 

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