Childcare costs increase again (in line with childcare subsidy)

wexfordman

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https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/we-are-actually-paying-more-than-before-subsidy-was-introduced-creche-crisis-as-fees-rise-by-600-36640400.html


When Katherine Zappone launched her much-welcomed €20-a-week universal childcare subsidy for hard-pressed parents last September, she appealed to creche providers not to spoil things by hiking their prices. Not everyone complied.



Well, looks like the predictions have rung though, see here from aug 2017

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/subsidy-may-see-childcare-costs-rise-457009.html


Another example of failed childcare policy ?
Was listening on the radio this morning and a representitive (cant remember her name) gave the usual excuses of increased salary costs, increase administration costs, increased training costs etc etc.


So, when we need costs to go down, the opposite is happening, and state subsidies aimed to help parents make childcare more affordable are swallowed up by childcare providers increasing their chareges/fees (reminds me of the time the first time buyers grant increased, and oddly enough, the cost of houses increased almost in tandem back in the 90's)

So, we have an example of state policy, creating and feeding the childcare industry (it is an industry, not a charity as some would have us beleive). It is fed by government policy around family taxation etc, it is state policy that is forcing both parents out to work, it is state policy that is creating the market for rip off childcare services, and this needs to stop.

We need real choice for parents, the ability for one parent to stay at home, facilitated by shared tax benefits (individualisation has done as much to create this problem as any other policy).

But what will they do next I wonder ?
 


hollandia

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https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/we-are-actually-paying-more-than-before-subsidy-was-introduced-creche-crisis-as-fees-rise-by-600-36640400.html


When Katherine Zappone launched her much-welcomed €20-a-week universal childcare subsidy for hard-pressed parents last September, she appealed to creche providers not to spoil things by hiking their prices. Not everyone complied.



Well, looks like the predictions have rung though, see here from aug 2017

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/subsidy-may-see-childcare-costs-rise-457009.html


Another example of failed childcare policy ?
Was listening on the radio this morning and a representitive (cant remember her name) gave the usual excuses of increased salary costs, increase administration costs, increased training costs etc etc.


So, when we need costs to go down, the opposite is happening, and state subsidies aimed to help parents make childcare more affordable are swallowed up by childcare providers increasing their chareges/fees (reminds me of the time the first time buyers grant increased, and oddly enough, the cost of houses increased almost in tandem back in the 90's)

So, we have an example of state policy, creating and feeding the childcare industry (it is an industry, not a charity as some would have us beleive). It is fed by government policy around family taxation etc, it is state policy that is forcing both parents out to work, it is state policy that is creating the market for rip off childcare services, and this needs to stop.

We need real choice for parents, the ability for one parent to stay at home, facilitated by shared tax benefits (individualisation has done as much to create this problem as any other policy).

But what will they do next I wonder ?
Yes. Because childcare assistants wages should be kept low.

This is a wider problem than just price gouging.

People need to have a living wage.
Insurance companies are ridin' the hole off businesses.
Lack of a proper local tax system means businesses carry the brunt of rates.
The law dictates a certain level of training is required, and that training should be ongoing.
Child protection issues have introduced a lot of red tape (not that this isn't needed, but possibly there are efficiencies to be had).

It's rarely as simple as sticking the arm in.
 

Edo

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Yes. Because childcare assistants wages should be kept low.

This is a wider problem than just price gouging.

People need to have a living wage.
Insurance companies are ridin' the hole off businesses.
Lack of a proper local tax system means businesses carry the brunt of rates.
The law dictates a certain level of training is required, and that training should be ongoing.
Child protection issues have introduced a lot of red tape (not that this isn't needed, but possibly there are efficiencies to be had).

It's rarely as simple as sticking the arm in.
+ 1

its not as simple as price gouging - particularly with the increases in rates and insurance over the last 12 months.
 

wexfordman

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+ 1

its not as simple as price gouging - particularly with the increases in rates and insurance over the last 12 months.
Nope, its not just about price gouging, there is lots more to it. Part of the problem is state policy forcing both parents out to work, reducing/removing the choice and option to have one parent stay at home to care for their children. Its almost a captive market!
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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A sensible country would directly provide these services, and would build social housing. Instead, for ideological reasons, we give money to private entities and funnel hundreds of millions to landlords, via hap, and own nothing for our trouble
 

hammer

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Its a feckin SCANDAL.

Also an even bigger SCANDAL is nursing home charges.

They are through the roof.

Many of these business owners have high initial costs with regard to property / mortgages / building costs etc but get good CAPITAL allowances on expenditure.

PASS on the benefits.
 

Edo

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Nope, its not just about price gouging, there is lots more to it. Part of the problem is state policy forcing both parents out to work, reducing/removing the choice and option to have one parent stay at home to care for their children. Its almost a captive market!
No dispute here - couldn't agree more

the 20 euros was nothing more than a patch thrown at a massive issue.

I've shed a lot of my centre right economic thinking in the last few year and moved a lot more to the centre - dare I say it to the left on a lot of things.

the main one is that the State needs to get a lot more involved on stuff that is vital to the State itself - chief among these being Childcare and Housing..............supply the deficits directly - cmon Fgers - time to dump the ideology before the population dump you - remember the ghost of Ernest Blythe.

Also its needs to get far more involved in the insurance racket - where the state and its organs make insurance mandatory - then it behoves the state to make that insurance available and affordable for those who require it to open their doors rather than the price gouging and subsidy/welfare to the legal profession that it is now.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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A sensible country would directly provide these services, and would build social housing. Instead, for ideological reasons, we give money to private entities and funnel hundreds of millions to landlords, via hap, and own nothing for our trouble
FG's entire set of policies appear, for very good reason, to be about siphoning off billions in tax payers money into the private sector in parallel but complimentary funnels.

For them it's all been about stoking demand but doing nothing to increase supply and doing nothing to remove the barriers to entry for competition.

FF were amateurs, focusing mainly on the development sector, but FG have diversified - healthcare (made health insurance almost mandatory, housing - as distinct from building - made HAP the gift that keeps giving, and childcare).

I'm only surprised FG haven't privatised justice yet - well they kind of have because if you can afford it they'll write off penalty points - but at least you can still call out the gardai without paying for it...for now.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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No dispute here - couldn't agree more

the 20 euros was nothing more than a patch thrown at a massive issue.

I've shed a lot of my centre right economic thinking in the last few year and moved a lot more to the centre - dare I say it to the left on a lot of things.

the main one is that the State needs to get a lot more involved on stuff that is vital to the State itself - chief among these being Childcare and Housing..............supply the deficits directly - cmon Fgers - time to dump the ideology before the population dump you - remember the ghost of Ernest Blythe.

Also its needs to get far more involved in the insurance racket - where the state and its organs make insurance mandatory - then it behoves the state to make that insurance available and affordable for those who require it to open their doors rather than the price gouging and subsidy/welfare to the legal profession that it is now.
The problem with judging FG as a "capitalist" or "right of center" party is that they are only really crony capitalists...they don't really want competition, they just want a market where "their" network gets to take a cut off the top.
 

hammer

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FG's entire set of policies appear, for very good reason, to be about siphoning off billions in tax payers money into the private sector in parallel but complimentary funnels.

For them it's all been about stoking demand but doing nothing to increase supply and doing nothing to remove the barriers to entry for competition.

FF were amateurs, focusing mainly on the development sector, but FG have diversified - healthcare (made health insurance almost mandatory, housing - as distinct from building - made HAP the gift that keeps giving, and childcare).

I'm only surprised FG haven't privatised justice yet - well they kind of have because if you can afford it they'll write off penalty points - but at least you can still call out the gardai without paying for it...for now.
BS.

Remember Co-Location
 

hammer

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The problem with judging FG as a "capitalist" or "right of center" party is that they are only really crony capitalists...they don't really want competition, they just want a market where "their" network gets to take a cut off the top.
BS.

FG have brought us from total wipeout to best performing economy in Europe.

€ 25 BILLION ANNUAL deficits are a FF Legacy.

Sure aren`t you voting FF next time out :)
 

Edo

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The problem with judging FG as a "capitalist" or "right of center" party is that they are only really crony capitalists...they don't really want competition, they just want a market where "their" network gets to take a cut off the top.
you give them far too much credit..............they can barely organise a piss up in the brewery..............
 

hammer

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you give them far too much credit..............they can barely organise a piss up in the brewery..............
FG ?

€25 billion annual deficit to balanced budget

Unemployment heading toward 20% and now heading to < 6%

Figures out tomorrow :)

They can organise my retirement piss up next year.
 

Edo

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FG ?

€25 billion annual deficit to balanced budget

Unemployment heading toward 20% and now heading to < 6%

Figures out tomorrow :)

They can organise my retirement piss up next year.
most of which had nothing to do with them

Seriously Hammer - even you know the same would have happened under FF - they just followed the receipe from Brussels and benefited from the recovering world economy..........

on the other hand , anytime they had to do something on their own...........the Gardai, the Health service, housing. water, local government reform, legal reform etc etc etc..................jeez do I have to go on?
 

*EPIC SUCCESS*

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Its a feckin SCANDAL.

Also an even bigger SCANDAL is nursing home charges.

They are through the roof.

Many of these business owners have high initial costs with regard to property / mortgages / building costs etc but get good CAPITAL allowances on expenditure.

PASS on the benefits.
The CAPITALIZATION has me convinced.

That Strategic Spin Unit is really working out well!
 

Edo

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Amazing.

Anything good would have happened anyway.

Anything bad FG :)
ah cheer up

Its not like of the rest of them would have done any better if thats any consolation.............we produce county councillors who are expected to step up to be legislators and in some cases , executives of large departments and organisations..........without really a clue or any real interest in most cases beyond "helping" people.........

Its no accident that the better ministers in recent decades , ie Gormley and Ryan...........were fully interested and vested in what their departments did and could do ..............you might disagree with them - but they couldn't be accused of incompetence or ignorance........
 

Windowshopper

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Instead of relying on full private operators may be the state should think about a state-owned or at the least a state-run regime.

The €20 a month scheme is just like the Help to Buy scheme. It's a solution to a problem that alienates none of the interests in the transaction, because if the government were to use something that was ambitious and effective it would mean that one of these parties would be losers. I said it before the last election, that FG does not have the ability to effectively deal with the homeless crisis because their range of solutions are too narrow and conciliatory, and the same problems can be seen in this case.
 
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hammer

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ah cheer up

Its not like of the rest of them would have done any better if thats any consolation.............we produce county councillors who are expected to step up to be legislators and in some cases , executives of large departments and organisations..........without really a clue or any real interest in most cases beyond "helping" people.........

Its no accident that the better ministers in recent decades , ie Gormley and Ryan...........were fully interested and vested in what their departments did and could do ..............you might disagree with them - but they couldn't be accused of incompetence or ignorance........
Didn`t those two chaps keep IM FF in Government longer than should have been the case ?

Was that the The Green Party that promised under Sargent not to put IM FF in Government :)

Nasty Greens !!
 

hammer

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Instead of relying on full private operators may be the state should think about a state-owned or at the least a state-run regime.

The €20 a month scheme is just like the Help to Buy scheme. It's a solution to a problem that alienates none of the interests in the transaction, because if the government were to use something that was ambitious and effective it would mean that one of these parties would be losers. I said it before the last election, that FG does not have the ability to effectively deal with the homeless crisis because their range of solutions are too narrow and conciliatory, and the same problems can be seen in this case.
State run creches.

Excellent.

How much extra in taxes roughly ?
 


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