China offers to help Ireland in Covid Crisis.

Lumpy Talbot

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No
An international charge of being held accountable for foreseeable harm cause to others would be vetoed by western superpowers before it ever reached the debating floor.

It would open up Washington, London, Paris and Berlin to a nightmare of viable cases which could not in their totality be allowed to proceed.
 


paulp

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"Totalitarianism is a political system or a form of government that prohibits opposition parties, restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life. It is regarded as the most extreme and complete form of authoritarianism. "

If you go to China and live there for a prolonged period of time with local people, you will realise how wrong you are with describing China as a totalitarian state. But I doubt that you have either the willingness or the courage/resources to seek the truth from real investigation. You and people like you are only interested in absorbing information that confirms your long-held views that have been fed to you by the media, the state and the people around who share similar views as well as ignorance with you.
ok, I can accept that I'm wrong, and will happily change my mind, but we're going to need to provide a bit more.
Totalitarian has 3 elements as you describe it
1. no opposition parties
2. no individual opposition to the state and it's claims
3. exercise an extremely high degree of control over public and private life.

I would have thought China answer yes to all 3
1. There are no opposition parties
2. I think of people like Liu Xiaobo who get jailed when voicing opposition
3. The state telling you how many children you can have seems like a high degree of control to me

So convince me on the specifics that I'm wrong.
 
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benroe

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An international charge of being held accountable for foreseeable harm cause to others would be vetoed by western superpowers before it ever reached the debating floor.

It would open up Washington, London, Paris and Berlin to a nightmare of viable cases which could not in their totality be allowed to proceed.
The message to the Chinese government should be that we will no longer out source health products and medicine to them, the message to Chinese people should be that we don't care how many of them are willing to die to save their governments face, we will embarrass their government all day every day if one of us dies because of them.
 
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sheehan

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ok, I can accept that I'm wrong, and will happily change my mind, but we're going to need to provide a bit more.
Totalitarian has 3 elements as you describe it
1. no opposition parties
2. no individual opposition to the state and it's claims
3. exercise an extremely high degree of control over public and private life.

I would have thought China answer yes to all 3
1. There are no opposition parties
2. I think of people like Liu Xiaobo who get jailed when voicing opposition
3. The state telling you how many children you can have seems like a high degree of control to me

So convince me on the specifics that I'm wrong.
1. Officially, China has a number of parties apart from the CCP. These parties are not the same as the opposition parties, to make the matter simpler, let's say, according to western criteria, there is no opposition party in China.
2. There are various kinds of and degrees of opposition to the Chinese government and its claims. Your argument that because Liu was jailed then there is no individual opposition in China does not stand to either logical scrutiny or facts on the ground.
3. Same here, it seems that you like drawing a general conclusion from one or two observations. It is plainly wrong to think in this way!

Let me ask you one question to show the logic fallacy in your argument:
Manning was jailed in the US, so was Assange, would you come to the same conclusion as you do with China in saying that "no individual opposition to the state and it's claims" in the US?
 

sheehan

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ok, I can accept that I'm wrong, and will happily change my mind, but we're going to need to provide a bit more.
Totalitarian has 3 elements as you describe it
1. no opposition parties
2. no individual opposition to the state and it's claims
3. exercise an extremely high degree of control over public and private life.

I would have thought China answer yes to all 3
1. There are no opposition parties
2. I think of people like Liu Xiaobo who get jailed when voicing opposition
3. The state telling you how many children you can have seems like a high degree of control to me

So convince me on the specifics that I'm wrong.
Here is one example that shows your belief that Chinese government is such a totalitarian apparatus that does not tolerate any opposition is plainly the result of media brainwashing.

The Dalian PX protest (locally called the 8–14 event; Chinese: 大连8·14抗议; pinyin: Dàlián 8·14 kàngyì)[1] was a peaceful public protest in People's Square, Dalian, to protest against a paraxylene (PX) chemical factory—Dalian Fujia Dahua Petrochemical (大連福佳大化石油化工)—built in Dalian city. The protest took place in 14 August 2011.

On the afternoon of 14 August, the Dalian city government agreed to move the factory out of city, although the new location of the factory and the date of its move were not announced. The proposed new location was later announced to be an industrial park on Xizhong Island.[5]

There are many incidents that show the Chinese government does listen to public opinion. The latest example is Dr. Li Wenliang. I have explained in details earlier what actually happened to Dr Li. The sequences of events clearly show that the local police was simply following procedures, but under enormous public pressure (there are plenty of keyboard experts in China too who are ignorant and self-righteous), the local police has been wrongly punished following a very high level investigation sent from the central government to clam down the public anger.
 

cozzy121

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A very generous nation, espically since the world turned their backs on them..


"..... We’re getting a little more now from the press conference (given online, not in person) by the Chinese foreign ministry. The government has been at pains to emphasise that it has the tools to control the spread of this coronavirus outbreak, but this morning did concede it needs help – in the form of protective medical equipment.

What China urgently needs at present are medical masks, protective suits and safety goggles,” the foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said in a press briefing on Monday morning.

China’s factories can produce 20 million masks a day, but panic over the virus has prompted people in the country of 1.4 billion to stock up on them, while frontline medical personnel have reported equipment shortages..."

It's good they are taking the lead on this, the US would probably demand payment for any aid..
 

callas

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Take the supplies of course.

Talks can begin later regarding how the chinese government must pay reparations to western democracies following their negligence and the damage done by their virus.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I see. And how would we enforce these reparation demands?
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Personally when it comes to help from China I'd be inclined to be very polite about it and thank them profusely. I'd also add a PS to the note which says if you are ever interested in a submarine and airbase facility leading directly on to the Atlantic then we'd be happy to send them a brochure. But that would be my recommended approach, and therefore subjective. Although any other kind of response which involves offending or insulting the Chinese people and their representatives should seriously be avoided, for many good and pragmatic reasons.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
The world is changing, the US is in retreat from its global policeman role partly as a mixture of exhaustion and off the back of an attempted disengagement strategy in relation to the Monroe doctrine by the current administration.

As an island state we could learn much from the history of island states such as those of Attica in relation to Athens and Persia a long time ago. It was a balancing act, and mostly consisted of keeping a respectable distance from today's ally who could just as easily be tomorrow's enemy and vice-versa.

Our location and non-participation in defence groupings such as NATO are advantages in our dealings with Russia and China, such as there are dealings beyond trade and some cultural activity.

I certainly wouldn't get into causing offence where it would be injudicious to do so, with a wary eye on the future of geopolitics as it looks at the moment.
 

Round tower

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Their is a very big delivery of suplies of PPE's and other tests from China expected on Sunday with more to come, don't know is it part of this offer or not
 

Beachcomber

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"China offers to help Ireland in Covid Crisis."


Will they take Wagmore? That would help Ireland.
 


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