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Church 200 Years Out of Date, But Re-Embracing Reality?


Radix

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Aug 31, 2010
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10,031
It is well known at this stage that the Catholic Church has a new Papal leader, a seemingly humble and simple Jesuit from Argentina.

What perhaps is not so well known, is that before his recent death, another Jesuit Cardinal laid out the path for his inevitable election by pointing out that "Our culture has aged, our churches are big and empty and the church bureaucracy rises up, our rituals and our cassocks are pompous," (Martini said in the interview published in Italian daily Corriere della Sera.)

In final interview, Cardinal says Church 200 years out of date | Reuters.

Given that the new Pope has eschewed pomp and ceremony at every opportunity, isn't it fair to say that the culture of pomp and ceremony within the Catholic Church has necessarily been given the heave at the behest of the advice of the now deceased Jesuit Cardinal Martini, and now being implemented by his fellow Jesuit?

It should be said also, that when the new Pope Bergoglio was offered the Papal Cape, he refused, reportedly saying, "the carnival is over"!

Thoughts anyone?
 

44percent

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Jan 18, 2009
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When will they realise? It's about the crazy stuff they expect people to believe. You can elect cardinals who wear sackcloth and sit in ashes and it will make no difference. No one believes that stuff anymore. Game. Over.
 

corelli

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Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
4,478
It is well known at this stage that the Catholic Church has a new Papal leader, a seemingly humble and simple Jesuit from Argentina.

What perhaps is not so well known, is that before his recent death, another Jesuit Cardinal laid out the path for his inevitable election by pointing out that "Our culture has aged, our churches are big and empty and the church bureaucracy rises up, our rituals and our cassocks are pompous," (Martini said in the interview published in Italian daily Corriere della Sera.)

In final interview, Cardinal says Church 200 years out of date | Reuters.

Given that the new Pope has eschewed pomp and ceremony at every opportunity, isn't it fair to say that the culture of pomp and ceremony within the Catholic Church has necessarily been given the heave at the behest of the advice of the now deceased Jesuit Cardinal Martini, and now being implemented by his fellow Jesuit?

It should be said also, that when the new Pope Bergoglio was offered the Papal Cape, he refused, reportedly saying, "the carnival is over"!

Thoughts anyone?
He never said "the carnival is over". He merely politely refused to wear it. It's a tabloidy comment.

I'm afraid whatever about this guys intentions, he is too old to all but merely scratch the surface if, indeed, he intends to change anything substantive that would actually make a difference to people in europe, at least.
 

Francophile

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Mar 28, 2013
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When will they realise? It's about the crazy stuff they expect people to believe. You can elect cardinals who wear sackcloth and sit in ashes and it will make no difference. No one believes that stuff anymore. Game. Over.
People are very capable of making their minds up without anyone "expecting" them to believe anything. How credible are you with your sweeping statements. How would you know that "no one believes" anything. A little sackcloth and ashes might bring you down to earth.
 

SideysGhost

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Nov 30, 2009
Messages
17,716
Just 200 years?

Guttenberg invented the printing press in 1439, Newton's Principia was in 1687, though I suppose Darwin didn't publish till 1859...

Mad pig-ignorant slave cults that demand people Believe in a load of bug-eyed fairytales for which there is zero evidence and which are flatly contradicted by all observation and experiment undertaken for hundreds of years now, can only survive in ignorant oppressed and poverty-stricken societies.

Ye are howling at the moon lads, religious gibberish has had its day, get over it and move on.
 

darkknight

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44percent

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People are very capable of making their minds up without anyone "expecting" them to believe anything. How credible are you with your sweeping statements. How would you know that "no one believes" anything. A little sackcloth and ashes might bring you down to earth.
If you belong to the RC church you are expected to believe. The whole belief thing is over. Time to grow up.
 

44percent

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I don't believe you.
Yet you believe some Middle Eastern story that's 2000 years old. With Virgin birth. God sending the spirit to impregnate a virgin with his son so that the son could be offered as an atoning sacrifice to himself because he was cross with humanity. Don't forget that god the father son and spirit are one. Good for you. Want to buy some shares in Anglo Irish bank?
 

storybud1

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Jesus was a real warrior socialist, a total an utter rebel that knew death would come his way by speaking out against greed and irresponsible behaviour. The organised religions have a lot to be ashamed of but also have kept most of the humility and caring for those less fortunate as their mission.

Nobody ever believed the hocus pocus stuff but the evidence is clear, you will never get humility, intelligence, love, forgiveness, anger at the money changers (bankers) nor compassion from politicians in this lifetime or the next.

We are only here for a few years, would you rather you pass on the Labour or Fianna Fail manifesto to your children or the basic message of Christianity ?
 

Old Mr Grouser

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People are very capable of making their minds up without anyone "expecting" them to believe anything. How credible are you with your sweeping statements. How would you know that "no one believes" anything. ...
But the plain truth is that since Vatican II Catholics have been expected to believe all sorts of things.

There's a Dominican Priest, Fr Tom Brodie OP, has written a book telling them that Jesus never actually existed, Mariology has gone mad, there's a whole gang saying that Padre Pio had 'the gift of Bilocation' (he was sometimes in two places at once) etc. etc.

The hope must be that the new Bishop of Rome can nail a few people's feet to the floor. In a speech to fellow cardinals, before he was elected pope, Francis is supposed to have denounced what he called "theological narcissism". He reportedly said, “"When the church does not emerge from itself to evangelize, it becomes self-referential and therefore becomes sick … The evils that, over time, occur in ecclesiastical institutions have their root in self-referentiality, a kind of theological narcissism." Pope Francis Reportedly Blasted 'Theological Narcissism' Before Election - US News and World Report

" ... But I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me."[SUB]2 Timothy 1:11-12[/SUB]
 

Deep Blue

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Jul 4, 2012
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When will they realise? It's about the crazy stuff they expect people to believe. You can elect cardinals who wear sackcloth and sit in ashes and it will make no difference. No one believes that stuff anymore. Game. Over.
You can try Atheism for a while, but I'm telling you, you won't stick at it....:)
 

darkknight

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Mar 6, 2009
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... would you rather you pass on the Labour or Fianna Fail manifesto to your children or the basic message of Christianity?
The usual p.ie culprits would have no hesitation in answering that question - FF/Lab manifestos, by a very long mile!:



:(
 

SideysGhost

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We are only here for a few years, would you rather you pass on the Labour or Fianna Fail manifesto to your children or the basic message of Christianity ?
False dichotomy.

If I have kids I'll try to teach them to be strictly upfront honest and fair in all their dealings with other people, and to think for themselves not follow the herd, just like my dad taught me.

Hocus-pocus gibberish, fantasy tales and self-serving sociopathy - and Belief in any church or political party contains aspects of all three - are not things any sane parent should wish to pass on to their children.
 

darkknight

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All those PhD researchers in Divinity/Theology Schools at


Harvard


Yale


Oxford


Cambridge


Frankfurt


Paris

... etc., etc.

really ought to read the musings offered by p.ie's anti-Christian elite (you know who you are!). I'm sure they would be astounded by the depth of scholarship on display here! petunia
 
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