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Church and state responsiblity for abuse of disabled children in 1950s

JohnD66

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Good but troubling article here on how the complete lack of state oversight on Catholic run institutions allowed abuse to fester in the 1950s.

'Whose idea was it?' State Policy, Clerical Abuse and the Intellectually Disabled in 1950s Ireland | The Irish Story

The Ryan Commission alone, for example, noted the almost total absence of oversight from the state into conditions within church run institutions. A key reason for this may lie in the venerated position of Catholic religious orders in Irish life. Within the Irish parliament (Dáil Éireann), the work of religious orders was almost incessantly portrayed as beyond reproach, with members of Parliament (Teachta Dála) describing how it was ‘a revelation to go into these institutions and see the spirit of devotion, self-sacrifice and loyalty’ displayed by orders like the Brothers of Charity in the care of the intellectually disabled.
 


GDPR

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We have to remember that these children were, at all times, legally in state care. The state farmed them out to Church institutions, but that doesn't change the fact that the responsibility for their care was always 100% belonging to the state. This was a dereliction of duty on a grotesque scale.
 
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JohnD66

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We have to remember that these children were, at all times, legally in state care. The state farmed them out to Church institutions, but that doesn't chance the fact that the responsibility for their care was always 100% belonging to the state. This was a dereliction of duty on a grotesque scale.
Correct and right.
 

Fritzbox

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Catalpast

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Good but troubling article here on how the complete lack of state oversight on Catholic run institutions allowed abuse to fester in the 1950s.

'Whose idea was it?' State Policy, Clerical Abuse and the Intellectually Disabled in 1950s Ireland | The Irish Story
Question:

Who is 'Graham'?

If he was 'intellectually disabled' to such a degree that he was placed in an Institution

- then what import can actually be attached to his memory of events decades before?

Was his testimony cross examined by a Legal Council for Our Lady of Good Counsel in Glanmire?
 

JohnD66

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Question:

Who is 'Graham'?

If he was 'intellectually disabled' to such a degree that he was placed in an Institution

- then what import can actually be attached to his memory of events decades before?

Was his testimony cross examined by a Legal Council for Our Lady of Good Counsel in Glanmire?
Fair points. I don't know, you'd have to take it up with the author.

But are you denying that abuse on a large scale went on in these places? We have a lot of evidence now in the Ferns and Ryan reports that it did.
 

GDPR

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Neither Church nor State were the most powerful forces in the land at that time; the actual force and powers behind what went on of course wont be talked about because that would throw into question the structures that exist now and just how good-willed they are towards ordinary people in the ROI. And Im not talking about the "Illumanti" or the "Brits".
 

Catalpast

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Fair points. I don't know, you'd have to take it up with the author.

But are you denying that abuse on a large scale went on in these places? We have a lot of evidence now in the Ferns and Ryan reports that it did.
With so many kids going through these places at a time when children were regularly physically chastised at home and in school

- then it is pretty well a certainty that some kids were abused in these places

But lets not fall into the trap that all kids were abused

- and that all those who minded them were abusers....
 

Catalpast

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Neither Church nor State were the most powerful forces in the land at that time; the actual force and powers behind what went on of course wont be talked about because that would throw into question the structures that exist now and just how good-willed they are towards ordinary people in the ROI. And Im not talking about the "Illumanti" or the "Brits".
Then what are you talking about?
 

JohnD66

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With so many kids going through these places at a time when children were regularly physically chastised at home and in school

- then it is pretty well a certainty that some kids were abused in these places

But lets not fall into the trap that all kids were abused

- and that all those who minded them were abusers....
Yes I agree that's true. But it happened to far too many children, that's the point. And it was allowed to continue when it should have been stopped.
 

Irish-Rationalist

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Neither Church nor State were the most powerful forces in the land at that time; the actual force and powers behind what went on of course wont be talked about because that would throw into question the structures that exist now and just how good-willed they are towards ordinary people in the ROI. And Im not talking about the "Illumanti" or the "Brits".
Freemasonic Satanists at their work again?
 

Catalpast

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Yes I agree that's true. But it happened to far too many children, that's the point. And it was allowed to continue when it should have been stopped.
Janey we all got walloped back then!

It was the way kids got treated - esp the lads

Ok for me it was the school I went to

- my Dad was decent guy

Anyway he never had to

- because he made it crystal clear who was the Boss!:cool:
 

ergo2

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Neither Church nor State were the most powerful forces in the land at that time; the actual force and powers behind what went on of course wont be talked about because that would throw into question the structures that exist now and just how good-willed they are towards ordinary people in the ROI. And Im not talking about the "Illumanti" or the "Brits".
So, Ratio, of whom do you speak?
 

Irish-Rationalist

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"Business interests" gave orders to Church and State and not the other way around.
All of the psychological, emotional, physical and sexual abuse perpetrated by the Roman Catholic Church on vulnerable women and children had nothing to do with the Roman Catholic church? Is that what you're saying?
 

JohnD66

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Janey we all got walloped back then!

It was the way kids got treated - esp the lads

Ok for me it was the school I went to

- my Dad was decent guy

Anyway he never had to

- because he made it crystal clear who was the Boss!:cool:
Come on now, what has that got to do with sexual abuse?
 

Cruimh

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GDPR

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All of the psychological, emotional, physical and sexual abuse perpetrated by the Roman Catholic Church on vulnerable women and children had nothing to do with the Roman Catholic church? Is that what you're saying?
Nothing at all to do with the Catholic Faith; not much to do with Church as a Mystical Organism, the Body of Christ- a lot to do with the Church as earthly organization which is as a sometimes uncomfortable, even extremely so, necesscity. The concept of these institutions came from Protestant English men and not Catholics whether Italian or Irish.
 


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