Church of Ireland Dean tells it like it is !

former wesleyan

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In todays IT John Marsden, Dean of St. Brigids Cathedral in Kildare reminds us that the ideals of republicanism have much to tell us and are still relevant today.

This republican tradition has much to say to Ireland of the financial crisis. While there is an international dimension to this crisis, we contracted a virulent strain of the malaise through blind faith in the free market and failure to maintain regulatory balance.
He's of course referring to early republicans like Hucheson, McCracken and Tone.

And he's got nothing good to say about the present shower at all.

Too often when Government Ministers are quizzed about our difficulties the response is basically that, bad as it is, if we can get the numbers right, we can fix the economy. No recognition here of where greed and exclusive reliance on the market has led us.

Mary Harney’s infatuation with a pre-Obama US-style health system is another example of the fawning worship of the free market. The other scandal we put up with is the way social exclusion is allowed to replicate itself over the generations
Good to see the C of I saying things that the RC Church obviously can't, eg. their opposition to any kind of National Health service down the decades leaves them hoplessly exposed to the charge of hypocracy and so they keep schtum.

Article here:
No recognition of where worship of free market has led us - The Irish Times - Tue, Nov 09, 2010
 


Tea Party Patriot

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In todays IT John Marsden, Dean of St. Brigids Cathedral in Kildare reminds us that the ideals of republicanism have much to tell us and are still relevant today.



He's of course referring to early republicans like Hucheson, McCracken and Tone.

And he's got nothing good to say about the present shower at all.



Good to see the C of I saying things that the RC Church obviously can't, eg. their opposition to any kind of National Health service down the decades leaves them hoplessly exposed to the charge of hypocracy and so they keep schtum.

Article here:
No recognition of where worship of free market has led us - The Irish Times - Tue, Nov 09, 2010
The problem is not the market it is the government bailing out failed entities that should have been allowed to collapse, both the banks and the depositors who put all their eggs in one basket.
 

darkknight

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Good to see the C of I saying things that the RC Church obviously can't ...
While saluting the efforts of the good Dean, it is certainly not true that the Roman Catholic Church has nothing to say about these issues.

Are you familiar with the impressive body of Catholic social teaching, dating from 1891 (Pope Leo XIII's encyclical on Capital and Labour) up to the present? John Paul II's encyclical on Human Work (1981) isn't a bad place to start.
 

former wesleyan

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While saluting the efforts of the good Dean, it is certainly not true that the Roman Catholic Church has nothing to say about these issues.

Are you familiar with the impressive body of Catholic social teaching, dating from 1891 (Pope Leo XIII's encyclical on Capital and Labour) up to the present? John Paul II's encyclical on Human Work (1981) isn't a bad place to start.
I'm sure that Archbishop McQuaid wasn't the first Irish cleric to ignore Catholic social teaching , but that's irrelevant because I'm strictly referring to the present hierarchy and their refusal to engage beyond a few platitudes about the need to care for the poorest.
 

darkknight

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... I'm strictly referring to the present hierarchy and their refusal to engage beyond a few platitudes about the need to care for the poorest.
Also untrue.

Are you familiar with the work of Crosscare (formerly known as the Catholic Social Services Conference), founded in 1941?

At present, they have an annual budget of approximately €11 million.
 

Arracht

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Good article.

It's also good to see a Protestant church leader stepping up to the plate and offering real leadership and invoking the inclusiveness of the republicanism of the United Irish era rather than the alternative sectarian vision of orangeism.

The RC hierarchy has dirtied its bib too much to be taken seriously, they have shown that they see the interests of the organisation takes precendent over anything and anyone else.
 

ellie08

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Top developers donated huge sums to Vatican - Irish, Business - Independent.ie

The RCC has done well out of the 'free market' traders from Ireland. Nice to see people still believe that you can pay your way to heaven. No, the money did not go to the needy, but to build a chapel in the Vatican - how holy!

By Nick Webb
Sunday February 21 2010
"NAMA-BOUND property developers Derek Quinlan, Treasury Holdings' Johnny Ronan, Ballymore Properties' Sean Mulryan and Paddy McKillen, one of the so called "Anglo 10", have all emerged as major donors to the Vatican.

Fellow donors included former Anglo Irish bank chairman Sean FitzPatrick and the controversial former boss of Irish Nationwide Michael Fingleton.

Other donors included digicel owner Denis O'Brien and William Bollinger, the Irish co-founder of the €3bn Egerton Capital Hedge Fund.

Solid gold 'Michelangelo' medallions were given to donors who had given more than $1m, with silver 'Raphael' medallions for donors of $500,000 plus. 'Bramante' medals were presented to donors of $250,000 or more. A marble plaque listing the names of all 26 donors, including the Irish builders and bankers, was unveiled in the chapel."
 
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eoghanacht

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In todays IT John Marsden, Dean of St. Brigids Cathedral in Kildare reminds us that the ideals of republicanism have much to tell us and are still relevant today.



He's of course referring to early republicans like Hucheson, McCracken and Tone.

And he's got nothing good to say about the present shower at all.



Good to see the C of I saying things that the RC Church obviously can't, eg. their opposition to any kind of National Health service down the decades leaves them hoplessly exposed to the charge of hypocracy and so they keep schtum.

Article here:
No recognition of where worship of free market has led us - The Irish Times - Tue, Nov 09, 2010


Lovely man the Revrend. Have to say i agree with him too.
 
D

Dylan2010

What free market? we havnt had free markets in decades , If by free markets he means an unholy alliance between business and the state I agree , But I cant take seriously anyone who has a such a sloppy use of terms showing his underlying bias
 

atlantic

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Free market my hole .We have nothing like a free market , the luders in government and the EU are interfering all over the place.The fooks in gubermint regulated the banks and look what happened ,they created a moral hazard that will cost 70 billion++
The welfare socialist slavery state is killing this country, the amount of somethingsfor nothings in the cs/ps,banks and welfare is bankrupting this country.People who try to be productive ,try to get on ,try to enjoy the fruits of their labour are been battered in to submission and chattle by the almighty rotten state .
The sooner the place explodes the better and maybe we can start over again ,and people can enjoy some freedom and get on with their lives without the state and its jackboot statist robbing ,plundering and regulating them into stagnation.
In todays IT John Marsden, Dean of St. Brigids Cathedral in Kildare reminds us that the ideals of republicanism have much to tell us and are still relevant today.



He's of course referring to early republicans like Hucheson, McCracken and Tone.

And he's got nothing good to say about the present shower at all.



Good to see the C of I saying things that the RC Church obviously can't, eg. their opposition to any kind of National Health service down the decades leaves them hoplessly exposed to the charge of hypocracy and so they keep schtum.

Article here:
No recognition of where worship of free market has led us - The Irish Times - Tue, Nov 09, 2010
 

former wesleyan

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jesus this looks like a god father film

it would have been nice if they were more interested in paying their taxes and debts to their creditors in this country. wonder can we ask for the monies back (obviously not)
petunia good find!petunia
 

MichaelR

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In todays IT John Marsden, Dean of St. Brigids Cathedral in Kildare reminds us that the ideals of republicanism have much to tell us and are still relevant today.

...

Good to see the C of I saying things that the RC Church obviously can't
Correction. This is not the C of I speaking, but a particular Rector.

The C of I is a place of considerable intellectual freedom. It does not constrain its clergy on opinions on... well, pretty much anything. And yes, there is at least one "Shinner" C of I clergyman, too.
 

former wesleyan

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Correction. This is not the C of I speaking, but a particular Rector.

The C of I is a place of considerable intellectual freedom. It does not constrain its clergy on opinions on... well, pretty much anything. And yes, there is at least one "Shinner" C of I clergyman, too.


So ? The article I quoted specifically expressed the support for a return to ( or perhaps, a taking up of !! ) republican values. What's your problem ?:D
 

Panopticon

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Some parts of the CoI are a club for posh champagne socialists, just like the modern CoE or the Episcopalians across the water.

You would more likely hear an Anglican minister in England talk about climate change than God.
 

Catalpa

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I'm sure that Archbishop McQuaid wasn't the first Irish cleric to ignore Catholic social teaching , but that's irrelevant because I'm strictly referring to the present hierarchy and their refusal to engage beyond a few platitudes about the need to care for the poorest.
For crying out loud the Catholic Church did and still does huge amounts of Charity work to help the poorest in society! :rolleyes:

Archbishop McQuaid was constantly engaged in Charity work in his own time.

He was essentially a good man who had the misfortune to have been in a position of power when Irish Society started to go through some fundamental changes that he did not view with sympathy or understanding.

If his career and Life had ended a decade earlier than it did he would hardly figure at all in the vilification stakes.

In his book "Twentieth Century Ireland", published in 2005 historian Dermot Keogh writes:

Ostensibly the old order was changing. The resignation of two figures from Irish public life at the beginning of the 1970s reinforced that perception. On 4 January 1972, John Charles McQuaid retired as archbishop of Dublin after spending over 30 years in the post; he died on 7 April 1973. Eamon de Valera retired from the presidency in June 1973; he died on 29 August 1975. ...

In the 1970s both men had lost their relevance. But the culture of service, upon which both had built their public lives, was an ever-diminishing influence in a state which had come to revere the philosophy of radical individualism.

John Charles McQuaid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

thegreyfox

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The catholic church were truly representative of the people at one time.They put the Knight Templars who were the bankers of that time to death in one weekend.I cant condone violence but that dosent mean it wouldent be a popular move.
 

onlyasking

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In todays IT John Marsden, Dean of St. Brigids Cathedral in Kildare reminds us that the ideals of republicanism have much to tell us and are still relevant today.
Good link Wes. Thanks.

He's of course referring to early republicans like Hucheson, McCracken and Tone.
I presume he wouldn't limit the credit to a few non-catholic individuals, and it should be remembered that a huge number of catholics and protestants alike suffered death or years of torture in Australia's concentration camps in pursuit of republicanism a couple of hundred years ago.

Good to see the C of I saying things that the RC Church obviously can't, eg. their opposition to any kind of National Health service down the decades leaves them hoplessly exposed to the charge of hypocracy and so they keep schtum.

Article here:
No recognition of where worship of free market has led us - The Irish Times - Tue, Nov 09, 2010
There have been important voices among the non-catholic population going back over the past couple of centuries and more. The independence of mind which is a feature of the reformed churches is something that needs to become the norm for the wider population.

As an atheistic humanist with a fair degree of contempt for the church of Rome, I think it would be very unfair to ignore the many members of that church who have dedicated their lives to improving the corporeal existence of the poor, the sick and the politically unconnected.

I note that there's been the usual guff here about our ills stemming from 'socialism' in one way or another, or suggestions that Thatcherism and other manifestations of free-market doctrines never gained a foothold within politics, economics and the media.

The likes of the the Dean could offer some lessons in logic and language comprehension to those individuals who labour under such bizarre delusions.
 


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