Churchill's moment of great silence and the extraordinary Irishman

Nebuchadnezzar

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The fall of Norway May 1940, the humiliation of Chamberlain and British war policy...... a large number of Conservatives fail to support the government on a confidence vote. A national government was imperative but the Labour party refuse to serve under Chamberlain. Lord Halifax, the Foreign Secretary, was called upon to form a government. Churchill felt that he would have to serve under him. Chamberlain and David Margesson, the chief whip, wanted to draft a reluctant Halifax and called him to a meeting with Churchill. Before this took place Brendan Bracken extracted from Churchill a promise that he would remain silent if it were proposed that Halifax should succeed. When Chamberlain and Margesson put forward the name of Halifax, Churchill remained quiet. After two minutes Halifax broke the silence and said that he did not think that he, as a member of the House of Lords, was in the best position to form a government. It was, claimed Lord Beaverbrook who was close to events, the great silence that saved England(and Europe).

Brendan Bracken was probably Ireland's greatest contribution to the defeat of the Nazis. National hero? Many have never heard of him. Son of an IRB man who was also one of the seven founding fathers of the GAA. Why is his significance so under appreciated in his homeland? Yes he disowned his native land but so did many other such national heros such as Joyce or Beckett. The 60th anniversary of his death is in 2 years time, perhaps we should mark the occasion.

Churchill and the Irishman, exibition at the Little Museum of Dublin, 15 St Stephen's Green, until 28th Sept.
 


sgtharper

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Interesting.
 

gleeful

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Interesting. But part of the myth that England defeated Germany. The Soviets did that. England helped a bit.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Interesting. But part of the myth that England defeated Germany. The Soviets did that. England helped a bit.
Britain did not defeat Germany but they did deny them victory.
 

wombat

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Many people born in Ireland threw their lot in with England. Most lie in unmarked graves in far parts of the Former British empire. They made their choice, we should remember them but honour should be preserved for those who fought or died for independence.
 

GDPR

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The fall of Norway May 1940, the humiliation of Chamberlain and British war policy...... a large number of Conservatives fail to support the government on a confidence vote. A national government was imperative but the Labour party refuse to serve under Chamberlain. Lord Halifax, the Foreign Secretary, was called upon to form a government. Churchill felt that he would have to serve under him. Chamberlain and David Margesson, the chief whip, wanted to draft a reluctant Halifax and called him to a meeting with Churchill. Before this took place Brendan Bracken extracted from Churchill a promise that he would remain silent if it were proposed that Halifax should succeed. When Chamberlain and Margesson put forward the name of Halifax, Churchill remained quiet. After two minutes Halifax broke the silence and said that he did not think that he, as a member of the House of Lords, was in the best position to form a government. It was, claimed Lord Beaverbrook who was close to events, the great silence that saved England(and Europe).

Brendan Bracken was probably Ireland's greatest contribution to the defeat of the Nazis. National hero? Many have never heard of him. Son of an IRB man who was also one of the seven founding fathers of the GAA. Why is his significance so under appreciated in his homeland? Yes he disowned his native land but so did many other such national heros such as Joyce or Beckett. The 60th anniversary of his death is in 2 years time, perhaps we should mark the occasion.

Churchill and the Irishman, exibition at the Little Museum of Dublin, 15 St Stephen's Green, until 28th Sept.
Sounds like a scene from a gangster B-movie.
 

GDPR

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Britain did not defeat Germany but they did deny them victory.
Balls. There would have been no WW2 if Churchill didn't work so hard to undermine the peace between Germany and the USSR. And when the war did start, it was the Red Army who did all the heavy lifting - while the Anglos skulked away in safety until June 1944.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Many people born in Ireland threw their lot in with England. Most lie in unmarked graves in far parts of the Former British empire. They made their choice, we should remember them but honour should be preserved for those who fought or died for independence.
Honour should be given to those who fought against fascism. If fascism had defeated the British, Irish independence wouldn't have mattered a damn.
 

wombat

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Britain did not defeat Germany but they did deny them victory.
Quite a bit of revisionism regarding Britain's role. Both in WWI& WWII, the German strategy was to knock France out before the real war against Russia started. The German military believed that they could not win a war against Russia if they managed to deploy all their resources. In both wars, the intervention/ involvement of the Brits f..d up the plan.
 

gleeful

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Britain did not defeat Germany but they did deny them victory.
How so? Germany was defeated from the east. The UK made no difference to the outcome of the war. For example, Germany lost more men in the attempt to capture a single building in Stalingrad - the famous Pavels House - than during the fall of France.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Quite a bit of revisionism regarding Britain's role. Both in WWI& WWII, the German strategy was to knock France out before the real war against Russia started. The German military believed that they could not win a war against Russia if they managed to deploy all their resources. In both wars, the intervention/ involvement of the Brits f..d up the plan.
That is my point.
 

wombat

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Honour should be given to those who fought against fascism. If fascism had defeated the British, Irish independence wouldn't have mattered a damn.
What if? We can only deal with what happened. Let the Brits honour those who served them, its enough that we remember them.
 

GDPR

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That is my point.
Except that Hitler was quite happy to settle into a cold war with the USSR that would have avoided tens of millions of deaths. Churchill subverted that peace with his terrorist attacks on German civilians.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Balls. There would have been no WW2 if Churchill didn't work so hard to undermine the peace between Germany and the USSR. And when the war did start, it was the Red Army who did all the heavy lifting - while the Anglos skulked away in safety until June 1944.
When the war started, in September 1939, and for the first 20 months of the war, Soviet Russia was an ally of Germany; and the Communist Parties across the world were instructed to work against the British war effort.

Here'a a lecture that Viktor Suvorov gave at the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis.


[video=youtube;6Clv-c6QdBs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Clv-c6QdBs[/video]
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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How so? Germany was defeated from the east. The UK made no difference to the outcome of the war. For example, Germany lost more men in the attempt to capture a single building in Stalingrad - the famous Pavels House - than during the fall of France.
An unhindered Germany, without any distraction in the West, would have had a far better chance of victory against the USSR. For example ....Barbarossa was delayed for a month thanks Mussolini's ill fated invasion of Greece and the British response to that.
 

Dearghoul

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Balls. There would have been no WW2 if Churchill didn't work so hard to undermine the peace between Germany and the USSR. And when the war did start, it was the Red Army who did all the heavy lifting - while the Anglos skulked away in safety until June 1944.
They skulked off to North Africa largely, and fought Rommel to a standstill.
 


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