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Civil Service performance


Oppenheimer

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
1,461
I think there are two great messages in this article that promote proaction on the part of civil servants but also messages that should be taken on by everyone in our society.

McAleese urges action on Civil Service performance - The Irish Times - Fri, Oct 01, 2010

First message: Don't condone mediocrity

She said everybody knew that, whether in private business or the public service, it only took one careless or nasty person or someone “in a strop” to get the whole service a bad name.

...She also said it was corrosive of staff morale among those who were doing the job well.
I think it is the responsibility of everyone doing the job (whatever job) to deal with underperformance, particularly if they feel that the low quality work or performance of others is demotivational to them.

Second message: Don't wait to be told - take the initiative.

“If you are waiting for some bloke in the Department of Finance to tell you how to address value for money, cost reductions, service improvements, real reforms to protect services in that environment, then you are wasting time. Start now.”
We need to take more responsibility in our daily lives for ourselves and our society.
 

wishywashy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
2,616
McAleese on 300k a year for talking. We should wake up to this chancer.
 

Mar Tweedy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
625
I think there are two great messages in this article that promote proaction on the part of civil servants but also messages that should be taken on by everyone in our society.

McAleese urges action on Civil Service performance - The Irish Times - Fri, Oct 01, 2010

First message: Don't condone mediocrity



I think it is the responsibility of everyone doing the job (whatever job) to deal with underperformance, particularly if they feel that the low quality work or performance of others is demotivational to them.

Second message: Don't wait to be told - take the initiative.



We need to take more responsibility in our daily lives for ourselves and our society.
That second quote is from Kevin Cardiff, Secretary General of the Department of Finance, not the President.
 

Mar Tweedy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
625
Mrs McAleese said one area that merited real priority was the system of performance management and development in the public service
In an environment where budgets are cut, staff numbers are down, Managers should be spending their time filling out performance review forms, conducting performance review interviews and giving marks out of five to their employees, instead of providing the services they are employed to provide. I don't think so.

I'm very disappointed (if it is the case that the IT quotes are representative) that the President chose to go along with the cliched line about the public service as if its full of dossers instead of encouraging and recognising those who are efficient, hard working and working in extraordinarily difficult circumstances for lower pay- as many public servants are.
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,155
Unfortunately a lot of what she said is true. It is very disheartening for those of us in the public service who go the extra mile and try to improve the way things are done. Many are told not to rock the boat or get laughed at by senior management.
That is on the front line where the public service probably works at its most efficient with the least resources. I can only imagine what happens in the civil service or in the administration of hospitals. It is quite clear that there are a few thousands of individuals who cruise through their "career" on autopilot doing as little as physically possible and getting the same pay as the many thousands who try hard, educate themselves (at their own expense) and try to implement change.
There are two main causes that I can see.

1. The Unions. I am a union member and believe in the benefit of unions but I have seen the bull that goes on within them. In fairness a lot of this bull is because they have to work with useless management (see 2). The unions would rather we all unite together and sink together rather than say to a waster that they should cop on and pull up their socks. As a frontline worker its getting harder and harder for us to be part of a union that wants us to take all the flak when we are the ones trying the hardest.

2. Management
It seems that a lot of those promoted to positions of importance got their not through some natural ability but rather through being the best at talking sh1t at the interview. Now there are many honorable exceptions but mostly their job consists of not rocking the boat and trying to please whatever political master is in office. There is no system of reward (bonus, time off, even a bloody letter) when workers do well and the only time we hear from them is when a directive comes down. A lot of positions could be simply wiped out and it would not even filter down to the frontline yet you can guarantee that they will take fire engines off the road or close wards in hospitals before one of these people gets their p45.

I love my job and what I do. I wouldnt do anything else and I would challange anyone in the private sector who thinks we are all good for nothings to do a night on one of our fire engines or ambulances and tell me we are a pack of wasters but when I see what goes on above me and in the background it drives me crazy.
Unfortunately what we will end up with is a system just as dysfunctional but smaller and paid less which benefits nobody, not even the vicious anti public sector ranters on here.
 

William D

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
36
Cost of Delivering a Public Service in Ireland is approx 33.33% greater than EU average --200,000 public Servants in Irl = 300,000 in EU average.
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,155
Cost of Delivering a Public Service in Ireland is approx 33.33% greater than EU average --200,000 public Servants in Irl = 300,000 in EU average.
William what is the average cost of living in europe compared to ireland (genuine question)
 

Baron von Biffo

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
11,471
"She also said it was corrosive of staff morale"

If McAleese is concerned about PS morale she should address a few words to our clot of a finance minister who cut their pay and dishonestly called it a pension levy. She might also ask journalists to write the truth about PS pay and conditions instead of pushing the IBEC/ISME agenda.
 

nonpartyboy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
6,857
The main problems in civil/ public service are :

1. The huge amount of middle management desk jockey non jobs.
2. The management pyramid building that treats staff as mere pawns and as for public service it doesn't even come on the radar.
3. The non tackling of complete wasters.
4. The unfair rewarding of pets/ staff with influence over equally hard working staff with longer service.

Although it always seems to me that 3 is a consequence of 4 as the unions don't rock the boat with regard to blatant favouritism as long as management go easy on the wasters, it suits the union, management and the wasters but leaves the vast majority of staff going why the he'll should I bother ?
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,155
The main problems in civil/ public service are :

1. The huge amount of middle management desk jockey non jobs.
2. The management pyramid building that treats staff as mere pawns and as for public service it doesn't even come on the radar.
3. The non tackling of complete wasters.
4. The unfair rewarding of pets/ staff with influence over equally hard working staff with longer service.

Although it always seems to me that 3 is a consequence of 4 as the unions don't rock the boat with regard to blatant favouritism as long as management go easy on the wasters, it suits the union, management and the wasters but leaves the vast majority of staff going why the he'll should I bother ?
+1
Trouble is instead of fixing the problems. Government and unions will conspire to leave it exactly the same only smaller and with less pay which will increase the frustration among the decent workers
 

thewildwest

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
25
The main problems in civil/ public service are :

1. The huge amount of middle management desk jockey non jobs.
2. The management pyramid building that treats staff as mere pawns and as for public service it doesn't even come on the radar.
3. The non tackling of complete wasters.
4. The unfair rewarding of pets/ staff with influence over equally hard working staff with longer service.

Although it always seems to me that 3 is a consequence of 4 as the unions don't rock the boat with regard to blatant favouritism as long as management go easy on the wasters, it suits the union, management and the wasters but leaves the vast majority of staff going why the he'll should I bother ?
 

Mushroom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
15,777
So folks, who do you think wrote Pres. Motormouth's speech for her? Even money says that it was a combo of some IPA honcho and some D/Finance pin head.

Her Imperial Majesty up in the Arus is far too busy to be writing her own speeches - they're all written for her by faceless bureaucrats - then she adds the folksy, emotive crap at the beginning and end of them.
 

Gryire

Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
282
McAleese on 300k a year for talking. We should wake up to this chancer.
Also spent €3,200 on her room for one night at the last pope's funeral.
 

Mushroom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
15,777
Unfortunately a lot of what she said is true. It is very disheartening for those of us in the public service who go the extra mile and try to improve the way things are done. Many are told not to rock the boat or get laughed at by senior management.
That is on the front line where the public service probably works at its most efficient with the least resources. I can only imagine what happens in the civil service or in the administration of hospitals. It is quite clear that there are a few thousands of individuals who cruise through their "career" on autopilot doing as little as physically possible and getting the same pay as the many thousands who try hard, educate themselves (at their own expense) and try to implement change.
There are two main causes that I can see.

1. The Unions. I am a union member and believe in the benefit of unions but I have seen the bull that goes on within them. In fairness a lot of this bull is because they have to work with useless management (see 2). The unions would rather we all unite together and sink together rather than say to a waster that they should cop on and pull up their socks. As a frontline worker its getting harder and harder for us to be part of a union that wants us to take all the flak when we are the ones trying the hardest.

2. Management
It seems that a lot of those promoted to positions of importance got their not through some natural ability but rather through being the best at talking sh1t at the interview. Now there are many honorable exceptions but mostly their job consists of not rocking the boat and trying to please whatever political master is in office. There is no system of reward (bonus, time off, even a bloody letter) when workers do well and the only time we hear from them is when a directive comes down. A lot of positions could be simply wiped out and it would not even filter down to the frontline yet you can guarantee that they will take fire engines off the road or close wards in hospitals before one of these people gets their p45.

I love my job and what I do. I wouldnt do anything else and I would challange anyone in the private sector who thinks we are all good for nothings to do a night on one of our fire engines or ambulances and tell me we are a pack of wasters but when I see what goes on above me and in the background it drives me crazy.
Unfortunately what we will end up with is a system just as dysfunctional but smaller and paid less which benefits nobody, not even the vicious anti public sector ranters on here.

As a matter of interest, were you at work when you wrote that interesting post?

Please be honest - and if you were at work, then don't worry about it, as the majority of posters hereabouts are gulity of the same sin - indeed some of them are paid to write here! ;)
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,155
As a matter of interest, were you at work when you wrote that interesting post?

Please be honest - and if you were at work, then don't worry about it, as the majority of posters hereabouts are gulity of the same sin - indeed some of them are paid to write here! ;)
I can honestly say that I wasn't (thank god :)!)

I do sometimes post from my phone when I am at work but mostly when I am stuck in a hospital for 3 hours waiting to get my stretcher back since a patient is stuck on it and there are no trolleys availible. Genuinely.
 

Mushroom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
15,777
Also spent €3,200 on her room for one night at the last pope's funeral.

Believe me, that's far from her biggest outlay on a hotel suite abroad. Her Majesty regards the usage of Presidential Suites in five, six and seven star hotels as a core Presidential duty and she attends to it with exemplary gusto.

(But it's never her 'fault' - because all of the bookings are made by Irish Embassys (ies?) and D/FA lackeys.)
 

eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,340
Route 66: the public servants paid more than the Taoiseach

John Corrigan, Head of NTMA, €500,000 + (Estimated as NTMA refuses to release salary details

Mike Aynsley, CEO, Anglo Irish Bank, €500,000

David Gunning, CEO, Coillte, €343,000

and on and on and on.

MEANWHILE BACK IN THE REAL WORLD
 

Mar Tweedy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
625
Unfortunately a lot of what she said is true. It is very disheartening for those of us in the public service who go the extra mile and try to improve the way things are done. Many are told not to rock the boat or get laughed at by senior management.
That is on the front line where the public service probably works at its most efficient with the least resources. I can only imagine what happens in the civil service or in the administration of hospitals. It is quite clear that there are a few thousands of individuals who cruise through their "career" on autopilot doing as little as physically possible and getting the same pay as the many thousands who try hard, educate themselves (at their own expense) and try to implement change.
There are two main causes that I can see.

1. The Unions. I am a union member and believe in the benefit of unions but I have seen the bull that goes on within them. In fairness a lot of this bull is because they have to work with useless management (see 2). The unions would rather we all unite together and sink together rather than say to a waster that they should cop on and pull up their socks. As a frontline worker its getting harder and harder for us to be part of a union that wants us to take all the flak when we are the ones trying the hardest.

2. Management
It seems that a lot of those promoted to positions of importance got their not through some natural ability but rather through being the best at talking sh1t at the interview. Now there are many honorable exceptions but mostly their job consists of not rocking the boat and trying to please whatever political master is in office. There is no system of reward (bonus, time off, even a bloody letter) when workers do well and the only time we hear from them is when a directive comes down. A lot of positions could be simply wiped out and it would not even filter down to the frontline yet you can guarantee that they will take fire engines off the road or close wards in hospitals before one of these people gets their p45.

I love my job and what I do. I wouldnt do anything else and I would challange anyone in the private sector who thinks we are all good for nothings to do a night on one of our fire engines or ambulances and tell me we are a pack of wasters but when I see what goes on above me and in the background it drives me crazy.
Unfortunately what we will end up with is a system just as dysfunctional but smaller and paid less which benefits nobody, not even the vicious anti public sector ranters on here.
If it is true, then she should realise that it is not as easy as she seems to be saying.

It is not public servants fault that those who are promoted are the ones who dissent the least and who do government spin best.

The public service is not alone in this - every workplace has a culture and those who do best are those that align themselves the best with that culture - whether or not the culture is a positive or negative one.

The LAST thing the public service need is Managers spending more of their time on reviewing performance and marks out of five, rather than spending their time on their core job, providing efficient quality public services.

I like your idea of rewarding good performance- even a letter or some sort of recognition Concentrate on that, rather than the endless paperwork associated with ridiculous marks out of 5 performance reviews.
 
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