Civil War: How the British Government supported the Loyalists who were fighting against the IRA.

TruthInTheNews

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A new book provides convincing evidence that the British Government sided with Loyalist Paramilitaries who were fighting the IRA during the civil war in Northern Ireland. Ian Cobain has investigated links between the various branches of the British Police and intelligence services and found that the British Government helped arm and equip various Loyalist Paramilitary groups and then provided them with intelligence about IRA suspects which the British Security Services had selected for assassination.

The book suggests that government ministers and senior civil servants in the British Administration had knowledge of the alliance between Loyalist paramilitaries and British Security Forces but there is no direct evidence as of yet to suggest that the decision to support Loyalist Paramilitaries was taken at cabinet level. What is known is that Margaret Thatcher convened a secret war cabinet to deal with the IRA shortly after she was elected and that cooperation with Loyalist Paramilitaries started soon after.

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/secrecy-and-northern-ireland-s-dirty-war-the-murder-of-pat-finucane-1.2796750
 


SideysGhost

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A new book provides convincing evidence that the British Government sided with Loyalist Paramilitaries who were fighting the IRA during the civil war in Northern Ireland.
What is known is that Margaret Thatcher convened a secret war cabinet to deal with the IRA shortly after she was elected and that cooperation with Loyalist Paramilitaries started soon after.
I dunno whether it's the Oirish Toimes spinning here or whether the book itself is a load of incoherent nonsense/propaganda; but framing the discussion in terms of a "civil war between the IRA and Loyalists" is obviously bollox. As is the notion that the British Military only started cooperating with Loyalists in 1979.

Even for the Oirish Toimes, claiming that the Dublin/Monaghan bombings of 1974 happened after the election of Thatcher in 1979, is time-travellin' shenanigans of Lehman Brudders proportions.

EDIT: Having had a chance to actually read the article, I was being entirely unfair on the IT. No such claims are made in the article, only by the OP. It's actually a lengthy detailed article touching on many characters and scandals people with an actual interest in the conflict will remember - Stevens, Sampson, Stalker, the Brian Nelson Affair, Pat Finucane and a host of other dodgy activities. So it was the (presumably-ironically-named?) "TruthInTheNews" that for reasons known only to themselves had to take an actual piece of detailed journalism and mash it though the meat-grinder of the southern establishment Approved Narrative to create the dog's breakfast that is the OP.

Just another day on p.ie *sigh*
 
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Toland

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I dunno whether it's the Oirish Toimes spinning here or whether the book itself is a load of incoherent nonsense/propaganda; but framing the discussion in terms of a "civil war between the IRA and Loyalists" is obviously bollox. As is the notion that the British Military only started cooperating with Loyalists in 1979.

Even for the Oirish Toimes, claiming that the Dublin/Monaghan bombings of 1974 happened after the election of Thatcher in 1979, is time-travellin' shenanigans of Lehman Brudders proportions.

EDIT: Having had a chance to actually read the article, I was being entirely unfair on the IT. No such claims are made in the article, only by the OP. It's actually a lengthy detailed article touching on many characters and scandals people with an actual interest in the conflict will remember - Stevens, Sampson, Stalker, the Brian Nelson Affair, Pat Finucane and a host of other dodgy activities. So it was the (presumably-ironically-named?) "TruthInTheNews" that for reasons known only to themselves had to take an actual piece of detailed journalism and mash it though the meat-grinder of the southern establishment Approved Narrative to create the dog's breakfast that is the OP.

Just another day on p.ie *sigh*
That's what happens when you jump in at the deep end before getting "a chance reading the article".

By the way, I'm not sure you're basing your accusations against the OP on the basis of what he wrote or what you have read between the lines either. If you can find mention of any claim by the OP that Thatcher had anything to do with Bloody Sunday, or even that same OP said that collusion with loyalist paramilitaries began in 1979, please get back to us.

Is it possible that the OP's mention of "civil war" and the rather lazy wording that speaks of "Loyalist Paramilitaries who were fighting the IRA" simply set off your triggers?
 
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Truth.ie

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Statistically, more people died in the 26 counties by Loyalist violence (per capita) than died during the IRA campaign in England.
In England thousands of arrests were made, hundreds jailed, and many extradited from Ireland.

The Dublin Authorities did not solve a single case, arrested hardly any, jailed nobody and didnt ask for the extradition of anyone.
Was that down to collusion, negligence, or plain cowardice?
 

Civic_critic2

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Statistically, more people died in the 26 counties by Loyalist violence (per capita) than died during the IRA campaign in England.
In England thousands of arrests were made, hundreds jailed, and many extradited from Ireland.

The Dublin Authorities did not solve a single case, arrested hardly any, jailed nobody and didnt ask for the extradition of anyone.
Was that down to collusion, negligence, or plain cowardice?
For the purposes of avoiding the destabilisation of the staus quo the IRA were, for the southern establishment, the main enemies. That is why the Irish civil war/Treaty was still current then and is still current now in terms of shaping the politics of the island. A certain class within the Irish establishment came to a Home Rule agreement dressed up as 'independence' and have stuck to it ever since. That is why even after a century and an economic boom bringing in billions that the Irish still 'rely' on British planes to fly over Irish airspace and 'protect' it.
 

between the bridges

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Eire1976

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Statistically, more people died in the 26 counties by Loyalist violence (per capita) than died during the IRA campaign in England.
In England thousands of arrests were made, hundreds jailed, and many extradited from Ireland.

The Dublin Authorities did not solve a single case, arrested hardly any, jailed nobody and didnt ask for the extradition of anyone.
Was that down to collusion, negligence, or plain cowardice?
That was all part of a deal done in 1974 in Baldonnell whereby the two government agreed to chastise each others handling of the IRA to make it look like the Irish Government was doing something for the nationalists and not colluding.
 

Truth.ie

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That was all part of a deal done in 1974 in Baldonnell whereby the two government agreed to chastise each others handling of the IRA to make it look like the Irish Government was doing something for the nationalists and not colluding.
But that doesnt explain the failure to solve a single Loyalist attack in the South.
Even when a Loyalist was arrested in the North with the weapons that killed Eddie Fullerton, no extradition application was made.
 

Levellers

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Unionist paramilitaries were simply another regiment of the British Army.
 

between the bridges

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But that doesnt explain the failure to solve a single Loyalist attack in the South.
Even when a Loyalist was arrested in the North with the weapons that killed Eddie Fullerton, no extradition application was made.
Ah jaysus, next ye be telling us that NI was a safe haven for terrorists to operate across the border with impunity...
 

Paddyc

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Ah jaysus, next ye be telling us that NI was a safe haven for terrorists to operate across the border with impunity...
But it was.

Loyalist terrorists could cross the border, carry out terrorist offences and return, safe in the knowledge that no attempt would be made to arrest, charge prosecute or imprison them.
 

Telstar 62

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Statistically, more people died in the 26 counties by Loyalist violence (per capita) than died during the IRA campaign in England.
In England thousands of arrests were made, hundreds jailed, and many extradited from Ireland.

The Dublin Authorities did not solve a single case, arrested hardly any, jailed nobody and didnt ask for the extradition of anyone.
Was that down to collusion, negligence, or plain cowardice?

Selectivity par excellence ( even if true )
 

between the bridges

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But it was.

Loyalist terrorists could cross the border, carry out terrorist offences and return, safe in the knowledge that no attempt would be made to arrest, charge prosecute or imprison them.
Ah jaysus at least the ROI wasn't at thon crack...
 

Ardillaun

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I'm surprised more spies haven't been named given how many there seem to have been in every faction. The Troubles turned into surely the most bizarre make-work project ever seen in Ireland.
 

Civic_critic2

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This massive infiltration of the paramilitaries, combined with a failure to arrest and convict many players, including agents, derived from a type of policing and security response which prioritised intelligence over evidence.
It derived first and foremost from the existence of observation towers with machine guns in the heart of every republican area and on every strategtic hilltop acros n. Ireland. Those towers were a huge contributor to the British being able to penetrate nationalist areas. The IRA said they would drive the British out of Ireland but they weren't able to drive a single one of those towers out of a republican area. And they showed a strange lack of urgency in attempting to do so.
 
S

SeamusNapoleon

Statistically, more people died in the 26 counties by Loyalist violence (per capita) than died during the IRA campaign in England.
In England thousands of arrests were made, hundreds jailed, and many extradited from Ireland.

The Dublin Authorities did not solve a single case, arrested hardly any, jailed nobody and didnt ask for the extradition of anyone.
Was that down to collusion, negligence, or plain cowardice?
With respect, the southern Irish authorities did jail the Littlejohn brothers.

And then they escaped. It seems.
 


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