Coast Guard helicopter with four crew missing off west coast

Orbit v2

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100 % mate... they wont be let say a woman pilot done wrong.... 1 thing i was wonderin was did they even check if she was on her period that night???? i use to go out with this bird 1 time that got fierce akword when she was on... and shds ate you if you said a word to her.... mebbe thats why yer woman ignored the winchman when he told her about the rock in front of them!!!!
I don't suppose you considered reading the preliminary report, before exposing your complete ignorance of what actually happened?

I'd say if the roles were reversed though you'd be saying the male pilot made a heroic effort to turn the aircraft, if only he had gotten that information sooner from the bint down the back, who was probably doing her nails...
 


Dedogs

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I don't suppose you considered reading the preliminary report, before exposing your complete ignorance of what actually happened?

I'd say if the roles were reversed though you'd be saying the male pilot made a heroic effort to turn the aircraft, if only he had gotten that information sooner from the bint down the back, who was probably doing her nails...
sorry mate im calling horseshite on that!!!! she was the captain it was her job to get them home safe only she didnt know where she was and she ignored the winchman when he told her there was a rock in front of them.... if the captain was a man that report would of been out a year ago sayin he was responsible specially if he ignored a woman winchman.... theres only the 1 reason the reports not out after 2 years and thats cause a woman pilot ****ed up!!!!!
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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sorry mate im calling horseshite on that!!!! she was the captain it was her job to get them home safe only she didnt know where she was and she ignored the winchman when he told her there was a rock in front of them.... if the captain was a man that report would of been out a year ago sayin he was responsible specially if he ignored a woman winchman.... theres only the 1 reason the reports not out after 2 years and thats cause a woman pilot ****ed up!!!!!

Idiot
 

Eoin Coir

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100 % mate... they wont be let say a woman pilot done wrong.... 1 thing i was wonderin was did they even check if she was on her period that night???? i use to go out with this bird 1 time that got fierce akword when she was on... and shds ate you if you said a word to her.... mebbe thats why yer woman ignored the winchman when he told her about the rock in front of them!!!!
some rumour going she was not at controls at all
 

Orbit v2

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Anyone who has bothered to read the preliminary report would know that she reacted pretty much as quickly as anyone would have in the circumstances.

What struck me from that report is it appears they made one serious enough mistake, and maybe the responsibility for that has to fall on the commander, unless it turns out to be some kind of training issue, or less likely that it was actually a standard procedure, but one thing is sure, it has nothing to do with what these bozos are saying.
 

Pabilito

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Anyone who has bothered to read the preliminary report would know that she reacted pretty much as quickly as anyone would have in the circumstances.

She made a sudden pitch up manoeuvre at the last moment in response to seeing Blackrock looming just meters in front of her with her own eyes.

However almost 10 seconds earlier and over half a kilometer away from Blackrock she made no avoidance manoeuvre whatsoever in response to the winch operator telling her that Blackrock was dead ahead. She had plenty time and distance to make a sudden reaction to that timely warning but failed to do so..

The obvious conclusion is that she didn’t take the winch operator seriously.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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some rumour going she was not at controls at all
So where do you think she was? Was she down the back doing her make up 🙄

It’s amazing what you can learn from some bloke down the pub. Do you drink in the same pub as your fellow idiot Dedogs?
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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He has an interesting point which you could at least attempt to debate instead of replying with ad hominem abuse.
You’re welcome to engage in interesting debate with idiots if you wish.
 

Orbit v2

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She made a sudden pitch up manoeuvre at the last moment in response to seeing Blackrock looming just meters in front of her with her own eyes.

However almost 10 seconds earlier and over half a kilometer away from Blackrock she made no avoidance manoeuvre whatsoever in response to the winch operator telling her that Blackrock was dead ahead. She had plenty time and distance to make a sudden reaction to that timely warning but failed to do so..

The obvious conclusion is that she didn’t take the winch operator seriously.
All of the above is a complete fantasy. The following is the transcript from the preliminary report, showing what happened:

Rear crew channel: K...looking at an island just in, directly ahead of us now guys, you want to come right [Commander’s Name]

Commander: OK, come right just confirm?

Rear crew channel: About...twenty degrees right yeah

Commander: OK Come Right...select heading

Commander: Select heading

Co-pilot: Roger...Heading selected

Rear crew channel: Come right now come right COME RIGHT

Co-pilot: [Expletive]OOOHHHH[Expletive] We're gone.


Whatever mistakes were made before they got to this point, and no reasonable person would expect a crew who had no idea what they were getting into, would have recovered from this point. At least, it would have required a different configuration of the instruments, of the crew, and probably a good bit of luck.
 
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Nebuchadnezzar

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All of the above is a complete fantasy. The following is the transcript from the preliminary report, showing what happened:

Rear crew channel: K...looking at an island just in, directly ahead of us now guys, you want to come right [Commander’s Name]

Commander: OK, come right just confirm?

Rear crew channel: About...twenty degrees right yeah

Commander: OK Come Right...select heading

Commander: Select heading

Co-pilot: Roger...Heading selected

Rear crew channel: Come right now come right COME RIGHT

Co-pilot: [Expletive]OOOHHHH[Expletive] We're gone.


Whatever mistakes were made before they got to this point, and no reasonable person would expect a crew who had no idea what they were getting into, would have recovered from this point. At least, it would have required a different configuration of the instruments, of the crew, and probably a good bit of luck.
Orbit, they almost succeeded in avoiding disaster. If you look at page 37 of the Preliminary Report, data from the Flight Data Recorder shows that their rate of closure with terrain had almost reduced to zero. They struck a glancing blow to the rock. It was damage caused to the tail rotor from that impact that doomed them.

Further to your quoting the transcript of the final minute and a point that I don’t think has been commented on here before was that the Commanders initial instruction to the copilot to “select heading” received no response and she repeated the instruction a moment later. Perhaps the copilot was engaged in some other action at that moment or perhaps he simply didn’t hear her correctly.

The initial sentence from the rear crew was tentative and initially rather vague. I don’t think it can be characterised as a warning. Per the Preliminary Report once a clear and urgent warning was given by the rear crew one of pilots responded decisively.

as the CVR rear crew channel recorded “Come right now come right COME RIGHT”, the HUMS data showed significant inputs on the cyclic and collective data parameters.
 

Pabilito

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All of the above is a complete fantasy. The following is the transcript from the preliminary report, showing what happened:

Rear crew channel: K...looking at an island just in, directly ahead of us now guys, you want to come right [Commander’s Name]

Commander: OK, come right just confirm?

Rear crew channel: About...twenty degrees right yeah

Commander: OK Come Right...select heading

Commander: Select heading

Co-pilot: Roger...Heading selected

Rear crew channel: Come right now come right COME RIGHT

Co-pilot: [Expletive]OOOHHHH[Expletive] We're gone.


Whatever mistakes were made before they got to this point, and no reasonable person would expect a crew who had no idea what they were getting into, would have recovered from this point. At least, it would have required a different configuration of the instruments, of the crew, and probably a good bit of luck.
It’s fact, your version is fantasy.

Rear crew channel: K...looking at an island just in, directly ahead of us now guys, you want to come right [Commander’s Name]

But she didn’t come right did she?.. instead she ploughed on straight ahead and crashed a perfectly good helicopter into the Island the winch operator had told her was directly ahead of them killing all four crew.
 

Pabilito

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They almost succeeded in avoiding disaster. If you look at page 37 of the Preliminary Report, data from the Flight Data Recorder shows that their rate of closure with terrain had almost reduced to zero.

If the captain had heeded the winch operators timely warning they would have certainly avoided disaster.

They struck a glancing blow to the rock. It was damage caused to the tail rotor from that impact that doomed them.[?QUOTE]

The tail hit a building on the Island, not the rock itself.

Further to your quoting the transcript of the final minute and a point that I don’t think has been commented on here before was that the Commanders initial instruction to the copilot to “select heading” received no response and she repeated the instruction a moment later. Perhaps the copilot was engaged in some other action at that moment or perhaps he simply didn’t hear her correctly.
Exactly.. the winch operators warning wasn’t treated seriously or urgent.


The initial sentence from the rear crew was tentative and initially rather vague. I don’t think it can be characterised as a warning. Per the Preliminary Report once a clear and urgent warning was given by the rear crew one of pilots responded decisively.

So in your opinion, a crew member assigned to FLIR watch in a dangerous night time operation has to SCREAM aloud a warning for it to be taken seriously..


The pilots never responded to the winch operators advice to come right.. their only response was a last moment pitch up when they saw with their own eyes the Island the winch operator had been warning about
 

Orbit v2

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Orbit, they almost succeeded in avoiding disaster. If you look at page 37 of the Preliminary Report, data from the Flight Data Recorder shows that their rate of closure with terrain had almost reduced to zero. They struck a glancing blow to the rock. It was damage caused to the tail rotor from that impact that doomed them.
Sure. My point is that the narrative put out here by these loons, is that the commander simply ignored the input from the crew in the back, which couldn't be further from the truth.

It's all the more tragic that they nearly made it, but they were in a situation that they shouldn't have been in, heading straight for the rock, at low altitude and high speed with some protection systems degraded, for whatever reason. You couldn't treat this as a "normal" situation that you can reliably expect a crew to recover from.
Further to your quoting the transcript of the final minute and a point that I don’t think has been commented on here before was that the Commanders initial instruction to the copilot to “select heading” received no response and she repeated the instruction a moment later. Perhaps the copilot was engaged in some other action at that moment or perhaps he simply didn’t hear her correctly.
Though we're talking about seconds here. Maybe he was momentarily distracted by the target on his radar screen starting to increase in size dramatically. Like I said, this is a situation that shouldn't have arisen. Maybe there were tactical mistakes. SOPs, training, the quality of the charts, all of this may end up being partly responsible for causing it.
 

Pabilito

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They were in a situation that they shouldn't have been in, heading straight for the rock, at low altitude and high speed

What exactly do you mean by ‘a situation that they shouldn’t have been in’ ?

SAR personnel by definition operate in unplanned emergency situations.. anything can happen and they need to be prepared for unexpected scenarios..and unplanned situations.

Anyway at least you confirm the point I have been making here that they were travelling fast and low. in a low light foggy environment where they were unsure of their exact position.. a point that your friend Biggles denies was a causative factor.
 

Eoin Coir

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The big question here is delay in reacting,and hat about the presence of Lighhouse on top on a clear night,I live about 40 miles from it and can see the lights all the time at night. Some loons try & excuse this failure that such lights are really for ships. I suspect that cos the pilot was a woman and family are possibly fighting initial findings which the will have,the whole matter is being delayed.
 

Eoin Coir

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Orbit, they almost succeeded in avoiding disaster. If you look at page 37 of the Preliminary Report, data from the Flight Data Recorder shows that their rate of closure with terrain had almost reduced to zero. They struck a glancing blow to the rock. It was damage caused to the tail rotor from that impact that doomed them.

Further to your quoting the transcript of the final minute and a point that I don’t think has been commented on here before was that the Commanders initial instruction to the copilot to “select heading” received no response and she repeated the instruction a moment later. Perhaps the copilot was engaged in some other action at that moment or perhaps he simply didn’t hear her correctly.

The initial sentence from the rear crew was tentative and initially rather vague. I don’t think it can be characterised as a warning. Per the Preliminary Report once a clear and urgent warning was given by the rear crew one of pilots responded decisively.
so you concede a Red flag warning was ignored
 

Orbit v2

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What exactly do you mean by ‘a situation that they shouldn’t have been in’ ?
I think it's clear enough what I meant
SAR personnel by definition operate in unplanned emergency situations.. anything can happen and they need to be prepared for unexpected scenarios..and unplanned situations.
You haven't got a clue
Anyway at least you confirm the point I have been making here that they were travelling fast and low. in a low light foggy environment where they were unsure of their exact position.. a point that your friend Biggles denies was a causative factor.
No, the point you've been making was completely different.
 

Orbit v2

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The big question here is delay in reacting,
There isn't really. As the transcript shows: by the time the situation became clear to the crew member in the rear that they were in serious danger, it was too late. It's there in black and white. The initial information was not conveyed with the kind of urgency that suggested they were in immediate danger.

One curious aspect though is the chain of command. From this stand point it seems odd that the information was passed to the commander who then passed the request to change course to the co-pilot. Clearly, that caused a delay and I suspect this will covered in the report, but maybe it was standard procedure. It's certainly premature to blame it on the commander.
 
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Volatire

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The initial information was not conveyed with the kind of urgency that suggested they were in immediate danger.
Professionals rely on their training - clear precise language - for communication even in stressful situations. They don’t rely on emotion, “tone of voice” etc. There are good reasons for that.

Only someone who has never held a critical position in a professional team could conclude that the winch-man’s “lack of urgency” is somehow to blame.
 


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