Coast Guard helicopter with four crew missing off west coast

Dedogs

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
6,211
Orbit, they almost succeeded in avoiding disaster. If you look at page 37 of the Preliminary Report, data from the Flight Data Recorder shows that their rate of closure with terrain had almost reduced to zero. They struck a glancing blow to the rock. It was damage caused to the tail rotor from that impact that doomed them.

Further to your quoting the transcript of the final minute and a point that I don’t think has been commented on here before was that the Commanders initial instruction to the copilot to “select heading” received no response and she repeated the instruction a moment later. Perhaps the copilot was engaged in some other action at that moment or perhaps he simply didn’t hear her correctly.

The initial sentence from the rear crew was tentative and initially rather vague. I don’t think it can be characterised as a warning. Per the Preliminary Report once a clear and urgent warning was given by the rear crew one of pilots responded decisively.
sorry there mate but youre actin the **** now tryin to blame the copilot!!!!! did you ever see ai crash investigation on the telly???? when theres danger the captain always says i have control and takes over....
 


Dedogs

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
6,211
Sure. My point is that the narrative put out here by these loons, is that the commander simply ignored the input from the crew in the back, which couldn't be further from the truth.

It's all the more tragic that they nearly made it, but they were in a situation that they shouldn't have been in, heading straight for the rock, at low altitude and high speed with some protection systems degraded, for whatever reason. You couldn't treat this as a "normal" situation that you can reliably expect a crew to recover from.

Though we're talking about seconds here. Maybe he was momentarily distracted by the target on his radar screen starting to increase in size dramatically. Like I said, this is a situation that shouldn't have arisen. Maybe there were tactical mistakes. SOPs, training, the quality of the charts, all of this may end up being partly responsible for causing it.
its not the copilots fault mate.... she wanted them stripes only theyre not just for gettin her photo in the paper she was the commander has to take the responsibility!!!!
 

Pabilito

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
5,616
You couldn't treat this as a "normal" situation that you can reliably expect a crew to recover from.

Professionals are trained and expected to assume direct control in a crisis and deal in real time with unexpected situations.. again the famous Sully case where he took direct control: “My Aircraft”

You seem to be suggesting that the imperfect circumstances on the night were an unavoidable cause of the crash rather than the failure of the captain to first of all realise she was in a crisis situation and deal effectively with the unfavorable but nonetheless resolvable circumstances.

All she had to do was to turn right as the winch operator instructed half a kilometer and around ten seconds before she crashed a perfectly good helicopter into an Island .
 
Last edited:

Orbit v2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
11,735
Professionals are trained and expected to assume direct control in a crisis and deal in real time with unexpected situations.. again the famous Sully case where he took direct control: “My Aircraft”
The situations were totally different. Sullenberger knew he had lost both engines. So, he knew what was going to happen. He was able to inform ATC. This situation was a complete surprise to the crew until approximately 10 seconds before the crash. There wasn't time for any emergency radio transmission.
You seem to be suggesting that the imperfect circumstances on the night were an unavoidable cause of the crash rather than the failure of the captain to first of all realise she was in a crisis situation and deal effectively with the unfavorable but nonetheless resolvable circumstances.
Basically yes. The main question the investigation has to answer is why they programmed the aircraft to head straight for a point where there was a 280 foot rock that they didn't know about.
All she had to do was to turn right as the winch operator instructed half a kilometer and around ten seconds before she crashed a perfectly good helicopter into an Island .
What you are basically saying here is that you think it's okay for an aircraft to fly essentially blind in the dark at 200 feet altitude and 75 knots, and should there be a 280 foot rock in the way, well that's only an "unfavourable" situation which any professional captain should be able to deal with, just by "taking control". You are deluded if you think allowing an aircraft to get into this situation is remotely safe.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
10,837
Professionals are trained and expected to assume direct control in a crisis and deal in real time with unexpected situations.. again the famous Sully case where he took direct control: “My Aircraft”

You seem to be suggesting that the imperfect circumstances on the night were an unavoidable cause of the crash rather than the failure of the captain to first of all realise she was in a crisis situation and deal effectively with the unfavorable but nonetheless resolvable circumstances.

All she had to do was to turn right as the winch operator instructed half a kilometer and around ten seconds before she crashed a perfectly good helicopter into an Island .
Not necessarily and generally not so. It depends on the circumstances.

You, again, pontificating about flight crew procedures. Go write a book about it.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
10,837
Yea,I watch the lights of lighthouse on Blackrock every night from about 40-50 miles away
Staring every night at flashing lighthouses is the path to true enlightenment.

Please take Pablito and Dedogs along with you for the next few sessions.
 

Barroso

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
4,013
in fairness mate its the captains job to know what theyre gettin into!!!!! if she turned right when the winchman said turn right they would of never crashed....
You might be right, but surely the real problem is that their instruments were faulty. They were provided with software that was unfit for purpose, and while maybe the captain should have been in her seat and ready to take action, ten seconds is not that much time to react if you she was not.

To my mind the real problem was the software that left them unaware of a major obstacle in the pitch black.
 

Pabilito

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
5,616
This situation was a complete surprise to the crew until approximately 10 seconds before the crash.
The winch operator identified the dangerous situation and advised the captain to turn right.. she had time to turn right but didn’t.

Basically yes. The main question the investigation has to answer is why they programmed the aircraft to head straight for a point where there was a 280 foot rock that they didn't know about.
The position and height of Blackrock was printed in black and white on Page 2 of the Route Guide they were following. Blackrock Island has been there in the exact same position and height since the beginning of time.. nothing surprising about it..

What you are basically saying here is that you think it's okay for an aircraft to fly essentially blind in the dark at 200 feet altitude and 75 knots,
No. I have argued here that they were flying too fast at 90 Knots and too low at 200 feet under the circumstances,, they should have slowed down and circled until they figured out their situation

You are deluded if you think allowing an aircraft to get into this situation is remotely safe.
The person who allowed the aircraft to get into that situation was the captain.
 

Pabilito

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
5,616
Not necessarily and generally not so. It depends on the circumstances.

You, again, pontificating about flight crew procedures. Go write a book about it.

You on here again with your very large ego promoting the notion that the only people qualified to hold a valid opinion about an air accident are pilots.. lolz …

As if Taxi drivers were the only people capable of designing cars..
 

Orbit v2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
11,735
The winch operator identified the dangerous situation and advised the captain to turn right.. she had time to turn right but didn’t.



The position and height of Blackrock was printed in black and white on Page 2 of the Route Guide they were following. Blackrock Island has been there in the exact same position and height since the beginning of time.. nothing surprising about it..
If there was nothing surprising about that, why did they do it?

No. I have argued here that they were flying too fast at 90 Knots and too low at 200 feet under the circumstances,, they should have slowed down and circled until they figured out their situation

The person who allowed the aircraft to get into that situation was the captain.
Idiotic post. The sooner the final report is published the better, to shut amateur sleuths like you up.
 

Dedogs

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
6,211
You might be right, but surely the real problem is that their instruments were faulty. They were provided with software that was unfit for purpose, and while maybe the captain should have been in her seat and ready to take action, ten seconds is not that much time to react if you she was not.

To my mind the real problem was the software that left them unaware of a major obstacle in the pitch black.
sorry mate im not buyin that.... supposin i hit a bridge with the trailer only i say its not my fault the satnav never warned me would i get away with it???? i would in my hole.... id be told youre the driver youre suppose to know whats in front of you youre responsible....
 

Dedogs

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
6,211
If there was nothing surprising about that, why did they do it?


Idiotic post. The sooner the final report is published the better, to shut amateur sleuths like you up.
if theyre let publish it atall mate....
 

Pabilito

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
5,616
If there was nothing surprising about that, why did they do it?
Gibberish as usual.

Idiotic post. The sooner the final report is published the better, to shut amateur sleuths like you up.

You seem convinced the final report will concur with your naïve simpleton views.. and maybe shut down contrary opinions as you seem to desire.

Maybe the final report will be a whitewash establishment cover up given that the captain was a woman and we live in times where it’s not PC to hold women in traditional male roles accountable for their mistakes..

Anyway your crass virtue signaling will certainly ingratiate you with the populist feminists here.
 

Orbit v2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
11,735
Gibberish as usual.




You seem convinced the final report will concur with your naïve simpleton views..
:D yeah, I'm fairly confident that the report will agree with me on this point.
and maybe shut down contrary opinions as you seem to desire.
too much to hope for, empty vessels and all ..
Maybe the final report will be a whitewash establishment cover up given that the captain was a woman and we live in times where it’s not PC to hold women in traditional male roles accountable for their mistakes..
Well, we know what you're going to say, if it doesn't agree with your preconceived misogynistic view ... LOLS
 

Cailleach

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
846
Just checked the last page of this thread when I saw it come up again. Might I be remotely correct in sensing that there is now a gender type 'discussion' going on here; if so, what the hell??

What in the name of God has gender got to do with this ...
 

amsterdemmetje

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Messages
16,339
Just checked the last page of this thread when I saw it come up again. Might I be remotely correct in sensing that there is now a gender type 'discussion' going on here; if so, what the hell??

What in the name of God has gender got to do with this ...
It has everything to do with it when said posters blaming the pilot are certified misogynists and always have been on PIE.
 

Cailleach

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
846
It has everything to do with it when said posters blaming the pilot are certified misogynists and always have been on PIE.
But is that not feeding the trolls ...

I'm more interested in chasing up the final report because, until that issues - and it's past time for it - the rest is bread and circuses.
 

Dedogs

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
6,211
Just checked the last page of this thread when I saw it come up again. Might I be remotely correct in sensing that there is now a gender type 'discussion' going on here; if so, what the hell??

What in the name of God has gender got to do with this ...
ask yourself this 1 question mate if it was a man flying the helicopter and a woman winchman said theres a rock in front of us turn right only he ignored her and crashed would it take 2 year for the report to be out blamin him????
 

Dedogs

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
6,211
It has everything to do with it when said posters blaming the pilot are certified misogynists and always have been on PIE.
why are you sayin she cant be blamed just cause shes a woman???? if it was a man pilot would you be sayin he couldnt be blamed for ignorin a warnin????
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top