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Coming to a Country Near You !

Ó Donnchadha

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spidermom

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Being an American who is worried about the Socialist takeover of healthcare, I watched this video, and read the accompanying article with both fear and trepidation as to what the future holds for the US.

These healthcare workers in the video appear to be woefully trained.




Nurse caught on CCTV turning off paralysed patient's life support machine - Telegraph
Would be more concerned...if I were you...with the need for (unqualified)agency staff to replace qualified ITU staff due to the current moritorium on recruitment...rather than some "socialist takeover of healthcare"...never mind the US..its here now!!!
 

Ó Donnchadha

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We don't seem to have that problem in the Boston area. Nurses are well trained, and well compensated. But those days are waning quickly.
 

spidermom

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More to do with CCTV than Obama!!!
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

OP would like to see the wealth-for-health strategy continue in the US, whereby tens of millions of people have little or no health cover and even more are under-insured? Statistics I read recently suggest there are circa 200,000+ unnecessary deaths in America due to this problem every year. Should this be allowed to continue? Also America, although it is the number one spender on health, ranks 41/42nd in the world for infant mortality. Surely a more balanced health system, where possible, could improve the lives of huge numbers of Americans?

And please stop with the hyperbole. Get back to us when the Senate ban private healthcare altogether before you label it a "socialist takeover". It's anything but IMO.

If anything the video (shocking, yes!) shows why hospitals and health systems shouldn't rely on agency staff over qualified nurses/carers. Questions should be raised though as to how Ms Aylward, clearly under-qualified, got near a patient, especially one with as severe medical complications as Mr Merrett.
 

vanla sighs

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Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
5,102
Being an American who is worried about the Socialist takeover of healthcare, I watched this video, and read the accompanying article with both fear and trepidation as to what the future holds for the US.

These healthcare workers in the video appear to be woefully trained.




Nurse caught on CCTV turning off paralysed patient's life support machine - Telegraph
Heard about that, very sad case but I fail to see the connection between it and your fears of a "socialist takeover"?

Is the nurse a socialist or something? :rolleyes:

Btw, there is no socialist takeover of healthcare in the US - sounds like a Tea Party "Topic of the Day" or a Faux News headline. Obama is trying to redress the imbalance in the system. Not going far enough of course.
 

NYCKY

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Apr 17, 2010
Messages
13,150
OP would like to see the wealth-for-health strategy continue in the US, whereby tens of millions of people have little or no health cover and even more are under-insured? Statistics I read recently suggest there are circa 200,000+ unnecessary deaths in America due to this problem every year. Should this be allowed to continue? Also America, although it is the number one spender on health, ranks 41/42nd in the world for infant mortality. Surely a more balanced health system, where possible, could improve the lives of huge numbers of Americans?

And please stop with the hyperbole. Get back to us when the Senate ban private healthcare altogether before you label it a "socialist takeover". It's anything but IMO.

If anything the video (shocking, yes!) shows why hospitals and health systems shouldn't rely on agency staff over qualified nurses/carers. Questions should be raised though as to how Ms Aylward, clearly under-qualified, got near a patient, especially one with as severe medical complications as Mr Merrett.
You wouldn't by any chance happen to know how many of those "tens of millions" of people are illegal immigrants or how many have the option of health coverage but don't take it.

A big problem here is that a lot of people have the option of health insurance but don't want to pay for it until they get sick and of course then suddenly they want it. The existing restrictions with regard to pre-existing conditions prevent a lot of this. This will all eventually go away under Obama care meaning that many will forego insurance until they are sick. You can see how the insurance companies might quickly go bankrupt.

Additionally many illegal immigrants who don't pay anything either by way of taxes or medical insurance premiums can and do get sick. Who should pay for their healthcare?
 

Ó Donnchadha

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May 27, 2010
Messages
2,091
OP would like to see the wealth-for-health strategy continue in the US, whereby tens of millions of people have little or no health cover and even more are under-insured? Statistics I read recently suggest there are circa 200,000+ unnecessary deaths in America due to this problem every year. Should this be allowed to continue? Also America, although it is the number one spender on health, ranks 41/42nd in the world for infant mortality. Surely a more balanced health system, where possible, could improve the lives of huge numbers of Americans?

And please stop with the hyperbole. Get back to us when the Senate ban private healthcare altogether before you label it a "socialist takeover". It's anything but IMO.

If anything the video (shocking, yes!) shows why hospitals and health systems shouldn't rely on agency staff over qualified nurses/carers. Questions should be raised though as to how Ms Aylward, clearly under-qualified, got near a patient, especially one with as severe medical complications as Mr Merrett.
Speaking of hyperbole, where did you you get your figures of 10's of millions without healthcare ? They are erroneous and an exaggeration.
 

Ó Donnchadha

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Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
2,091
Heard about that, very sad case but I fail to see the connection between it and your fears of a "socialist takeover"?

Is the nurse a socialist or something? :rolleyes:

Btw, there is no socialist takeover of healthcare in the US - sounds like a Tea Party "Topic of the Day" or a Faux News headline. Obama is trying to redress the imbalance in the system. Not going far enough of course.
No but a system of socialized medicine and cost controls, controlled by large public Unions, will result is the usual mediocrity.

The end game by the administration, is to price and control the private insurers out of the market, which will result in government control.

The Government also forces hospitals to except low income patients, but does not want to adequately reimburse the healtcare providers.

Smaller hospitals in Massachusetts are already suing the state. The facts are that the smaller local hospitals, have to provide care for those who are without, but the state refuses to adequately reimburse the small Hospitals, resulting in huge debt.

Large corporations. that have traditionally provided healthcare for their employees, are now looking to discontinue those benefits.

healthcare workers in the Us are highly educated, and well paid. But Government controls will drive down the higher salaries.
 

NYCKY

Moderator
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
13,150
No but a system of socialized medicine and cost controls, controlled by large public Unions, will result is the usual mediocrity.

The end game by the administration, is to price and control the private insurers out of the market, which will result in government control.

The Government also forces hospitals to except low income patients, but does not want to adequately reimburse the healtcare providers.

Smaller hospitals in Massachusetts are already suing the state. The facts are that the smaller local hospitals, have to provide care for those who are without, but the state refuses to adequately reimburse the small Hospitals, resulting in huge debt.

Large corporations. that have traditionally provided healthcare for their employees, are now looking to discontinue those benefits.

healthcare workers in the Us are highly educated, and well paid. But Government controls will drive down the higher salaries.
+1

and if people in Ireland have learned anything in the last few years it should be that throwing money at the problem doesn't solve it! Just think PPARS, Electronic voting, FAS, HSE etc (leaving aside the obvious banks) etc
 

ne0ica

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Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
8,452
Being an American who is worried about the Socialist takeover of healthcare, I watched this video, and read the accompanying article with both fear and trepidation as to what the future holds for the US.

These healthcare workers in the video appear to be woefully trained.




Nurse caught on CCTV turning off paralysed patient's life support machine - Telegraph
Ó Donnchadha America is the only country in the G20 that does not have a national health care system. I find it odd that middle class Americans who pay most of the taxes, yet have to send their kids to private schools, pay outrageous tuition for their kids to go college and rely on their employer to provide health care. While the Mexicans and poor whites and improvished blacks get alot of this for free.
 

NYCKY

Moderator
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
13,150
Ó Donnchadha America is the only country in the G20 that does not have a national health care system. I find it odd that middle class Americans who pay most of the taxes, yet have to send their kids to private schools, pay outrageous tuition for their kids to go college and rely on their employer to provide health care. While the Mexicans and poor whites and improvished blacks get alot of this for free.
Thanks Neoica, now you are sounding like a Republican. You find it odd, yet the middle class find it outrageous. Hence the voter anger and unintended consequences such as the rise of the tea party!
 

ne0ica

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
8,452
No but a system of socialized medicine and cost controls, controlled by large public Unions, will result is the usual mediocrity.

The end game by the administration, is to price and control the private insurers out of the market, which will result in government control.

The Government also forces hospitals to except low income patients, but does not want to adequately reimburse the healtcare providers.

Smaller hospitals in Massachusetts are already suing the state. The facts are that the smaller local hospitals, have to provide care for those who are without, but the state refuses to adequately reimburse the small Hospitals, resulting in huge debt.

Large corporations. that have traditionally provided healthcare for their employees, are now looking to discontinue those benefits.

healthcare workers in the Us are highly educated, and well paid. But Government controls will drive down the higher salaries.
So what is your proposal to bring cheap affordable health care to America.
 

Ó Donnchadha

Well-known member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
2,091
Heard about that, very sad case but I fail to see the connection between it and your fears of a "socialist takeover"?

Is the nurse a socialist or something? :rolleyes:

Btw, there is no socialist takeover of healthcare in the US - sounds like a Tea Party "Topic of the Day" or a Faux News headline. Obama is trying to redress the imbalance in the system. Not going far enough of course.

Nice try with the Tea party smoke screen. But to make the comment that Obama is trying to redress imbalances, is pie in the sky Liberalism. The cost of healthcare is going through the roof. There is already talk of rationing.

Obamas pick of Dr Donald Berwick to head Medicare and Medicaid is proof of that.

Berwick, a professor at Harvard Medical School, has repeatedly indicated his support for rationing and for the single-payer, government-run health care system of Great Britain. After President Obama signed a $787-billion stimulus law that created a Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research--perceived by critics to be a first step toward creating a federal rationing system for health care--Berwick defended the program and rationing health care.

“The decision is not whether or not we will ration care--the decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open,” Berwick said in a June 2009 interview with Biotechnology Healthcare.

The administration already has stated, that they will make cuts in Medicare to the elderly.

How will the administration offer healthcare every US citizen, and non-citizen, and control costs at the same time ? do the math.
 

ne0ica

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Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
8,452
Thanks Neoica, now you are sounding like a Republican. You find it odd, yet the middle class find it outrageous. Hence the voter anger and unintended consequences such as the rise of the tea party!
The Republican party left me when they were taken over by neo cons ideologues and invaded Iraq.
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

You wouldn't by any chance happen to know how many of those "tens of millions" of people are illegal immigrants or how many have the option of health coverage but don't take it.
I wouldn't. Perhaps you do? At the moment everyone has the option of healthcare or perhaps you meant how many of those who are able to afford healthcare but don't take it?

That still leaves us with those who are unable to afford the option of healthcare and simply can't get it.

Additionally many illegal immigrants who don't pay anything either by way of taxes or medical insurance premiums can and do get sick. Who should pay for their healthcare?
They should. That either means they should pay taxes or take out health insurance. That would still leave you with the same scenario though and the legalisation of millions of illegal workers. There is no perfect system (and the Irish have nothing to boast about either) but a balance must be sought or else society bears a higher cost.

A big problem here is that a lot of people have the option of health insurance but don't want to pay for it until they get sick and of course then suddenly they want it. The existing restrictions with regard to pre-existing conditions prevent a lot of this. This will all eventually go away under Obama care meaning that many will forego insurance until they are sick. You can see how the insurance companies might quickly go bankrupt.
I can see your point but as I see it, the outcome (as you've suggested) will be beneficial for every american consumer. Household or individual health insurance bills, if what you say happens, will surely fall? Now people will always be sick, every day, so insurance companies will not be short a few $ but their ability to profit from healthy persons will be curtailed. That's a fair outcome IMO and pro-consumer in a private market.
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

Speaking of hyperbole, where did you you get your figures of 10's of millions without healthcare ? They are erroneous and an exaggeration.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States"]Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Unbalanced_scales.svg" class="image"><img alt="Unbalanced scales.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Unbalanced_scales.svg/45px-Unbalanced_scales.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/f/fe/Unbalanced_scales.svg/45px-Unbalanced_scales.svg.png[/ame]

The end of the document gives you all of the links from the studies quoted. A lot of reading but an all-round picture.
 

Ó Donnchadha

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Messages
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So what is your proposal to bring cheap affordable health care to America.
I would start with the premise, that we leave those who currently enjoy their healthcare plans alone. I would also attempt to implement tort reform. we have too many big lawsuits going on the country.

I would also encourage competition across state lines, which is now prohibited. competition a good thing.

I would also mandate those that chose not to purchase healthcare that is being offered by their employees, to purchase such a plan.


Then I would handle the issue of those that are without healthcare.


We need to focus on what is NOT working, and leave alone what is working. The vast majority of US citizens are satisfied with the healthcare they currently have.

70% of Americans want nothing to do with the Obama administrations healthcare grab.

I do not believe we need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
 

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