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Coming up to Backstop "Crunch-Time" Krauts Break Ranks


livingstone

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
24,347
Angela Merkel urges Taoiseach Leo Varadkar to soften backstop demands in order to secure Brexit deal - Irish Mirror Online

Angel Merkel Urges Taoiseach to Soften Backstop Demands in Order to Secure Backstop Deal

Looks to me like just coming up to "Crunch Time" that the Krauts have broken ranks. It wasn't meant to play out like this. Can yous remember all along up till three days ago the EU gave assurances that they stood 100% behind Ireland's request for a backstop.
The playbook was supposed to run along the lines of:
Theresa May asks EU for alteration of the backstop
EU tell Thersa May "nothing doing"
Theresa May goes back to Parliament where they all strut and fret their hour upon the stage and then either:
a) Crash out without a deal (Unlikely as the Irish-American lobby have just put out the message of no trade-deal with the U.S. if they harm the "Good Friday Agreement" in any way.
b) Call a new election which could or should enable a majority which will accept the Customs border going down the Irish sea. i.e. Northern Irleand goes its merry way politically as before but the island of Ireland remains inside the EU Customs Union.

This last b) is the only practical and reasonable solution. Arlene and the DUP will have to compromise.

It must come as a blow to Leo Vardkar and the Irish team who have been playing "Mr Nice Guy" all these years trying to be "good little Europeans".

But it comes as a double-blow to Leo as relations have inevitably soured with the Brits, our third biggest trading partner -- in spite of the best efforts of the Irish side to help the UK achieve the softest Brexit possible.
Leo says as much in his reply to Merkel:


It's not something world-shattering to hold an election (the Brits have one every four years), achieve some sort of a majority that supports Ulster remaining in the customs Union... and then the UK can proceed with their very own Brexit. Ulster is not the size of one pimple on the ass of the British economy. It's not even the end of the rail-road line. You have to catch a ferry as well.

Leo must asking himself... all this EU cammeraderie, solidarity and backslappery just up to the time when it's most needed and then Merkel... (and before this the Polish For-Min) come out and tell him to compromise -- on the Backstop insurance policy.
It's time for FF & FG to count up their chips: The people of Ireland have taken in all these EU workers along with the half of Africa and Asia and have given them jobs and houses while we suffer an enormous homeless problem ourselves. The rescue of the bondholders I need not mention.

One wonders how Theresa May managed to pull this one off. Perhaps it could have something to do with the UK being a member of Nato. And recall that Trump wants to loosen his connections with same just at a time when Putin is doing his sabre-rattling out in the Ukraine.

I would suggest that we have some hard thinking to do.
I lost you when you claimed that the backstop creates a customs border in the Irish Sea. You've obviously not read the backstop.
 

livingstone

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
24,347
I have always said the govt was backing itself into a corner by demanding a region not part of the EU (in a few months possibly) should be part of the Customs Union and Single Market. It goes against the concept of the Single Market to have a non-EU country - or indeed part of one - in it completely without their being external barriers to non-EEA trade. It is true that Norway is part of the Single Market. But Norway also has hi-tech border security with Swede that can take 2 hours I've heard to get through.

The biggest mistake the govt was made was the alleged order to the Dept of Finance to stop investigating technological solutions. I have always argued for GPS tracking.
You've made a good point without even knowing it.

The EU have given something massive away in the Backstop: they have accepted that Northern Ireland can have full access to the Single Market without (a) customs barriers between NI and GB or (b) paying a penny.

The alternative is a border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. Your Sweden/Norway example is instructive: you're right, even though it is very high tech and modern, and probably one of the lightest touch examples of borders, between two countries both in Schengen, both with the same product standards - it really is a best in class example of a border. But it still requires approved roads, checks and delays.

That is the future for the Irish border without the backstop.

But though it wasn't your intention, you've proven your case to be wrong. If you could maintain the integrity of your market with tech - say just GPS - then why on earth would Norway and Sweden not have done that already? They're both wealthy countries, technologically adept countries. There would be significant economic advantages to reducing delays at borders.

If the tech was there, they'd have used it.

They haven't. Because it's not.
 

livingstone

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Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
24,347
Something tells me this thread is not going to age well.
Nope.

I do think the EU will offer something on the backstop. But what they'll offer will be some addendum where they can add something more on temporariness.

But this circle-jerk waiting for the victim narrative because the EU rips up the backstop is totally bonkers. Just not going to happen.
 

IDBI0

Active member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
192
Angela Merkel urges Taoiseach Leo Varadkar to soften backstop demands in order to secure Brexit deal - Irish Mirror Online

Angel Merkel Urges Taoiseach to Soften Backstop Demands in Order to Secure Backstop Deal

Looks to me like just coming up to "Crunch Time" that the Krauts have broken ranks. It wasn't meant to play out like this. Can yous remember all along up till three days ago the EU gave assurances that they stood 100% behind Ireland's request for a backstop.
The playbook was supposed to run along the lines of:
Theresa May asks EU for alteration of the backstop
EU tell Thersa May "nothing doing"
Theresa May goes back to Parliament where they all strut and fret their hour upon the stage and then either:
a) Crash out without a deal (Unlikely as the Irish-American lobby have just put out the message of no trade-deal with the U.S. if they harm the "Good Friday Agreement" in any way.
b) Call a new election which could or should enable a majority which will accept the Customs border going down the Irish sea. i.e. Northern Irleand goes its merry way politically as before but the island of Ireland remains inside the EU Customs Union.

This last b) is the only practical and reasonable solution. Arlene and the DUP will have to compromise.

It must come as a blow to Leo Vardkar and the Irish team who have been playing "Mr Nice Guy" all these years trying to be "good little Europeans".

But it comes as a double-blow to Leo as relations have inevitably soured with the Brits, our third biggest trading partner -- in spite of the best efforts of the Irish side to help the UK achieve the softest Brexit possible.
Leo says as much in his reply to Merkel:


It's not something world-shattering to hold an election (the Brits have one every four years), achieve some sort of a majority that supports Ulster remaining in the customs Union... and then the UK can proceed with their very own Brexit. Ulster is not the size of one pimple on the ass of the British economy. It's not even the end of the rail-road line. You have to catch a ferry as well.

Leo must asking himself... all this EU cammeraderie, solidarity and backslappery just up to the time when it's most needed and then Merkel... (and before this the Polish For-Min) come out and tell him to compromise -- on the Backstop insurance policy.
It's time for FF & FG to count up their chips: The people of Ireland have taken in all these EU workers along with the half of Africa and Asia and have given them jobs and houses while we suffer an enormous homeless problem ourselves. The rescue of the bondholders I need not mention.

One wonders how Theresa May managed to pull this one off. Perhaps it could have something to do with the UK being a member of Nato. And recall that Trump wants to loosen his connections with same just at a time when Putin is doing his sabre-rattling out in the Ukraine.

I would suggest that we have some hard thinking to do.
This is where I stopped reading.
 

londonpride

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
662
Ireland will be flung under the bus - have no doubts
As said before ,The UK is much more important to Europe that that little island off the Coast

Some posters on here do not have the intelligence to understand some realities.

The EU operates on self interest , A Solution will be enforced on Ireland.

The Irish in Britain need Dublin's support ,But NO, Just like 1921 when nationalists in the North were dumped , again we are going to see a similar outcome to this Brexit tragedy.
 

Dearghoul

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
8,623
750,000 German cars are brought into the UK every year .
Many have the wheel on the correct side for British drivers.

Fear not little Cran's.

The condition of the UK after Brexit will mean that the demand for German cars will level out quite a bit and that German manufacturers will be forced to expand into alternative markets.

One problem will solve another.
 

livingstone

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
24,347
As said before ,The UK is much more important to Europe that that little island off the Coast

Some posters on here do not have the intelligence to understand some realities.

The EU operates on self interest , A Solution will be enforced on Ireland.

The Irish in Britain need Dublin's support ,But NO, Just like 1921 when nationalists in the North were dumped , again we are going to see a similar outcome to this Brexit tragedy.
You've been asked this on another thread but ran away: in what way will Irish nationals in the UK be negatively affected?
 

Dearghoul

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
8,623
As said before ,The UK is much more important to Europe that that little island off the Coast

Some posters on here do not have the intelligence to understand some realities.

The EU operates on self interest , A Solution will be enforced on Ireland.

The Irish in Britain need Dublin's support ,But NO, Just like 1921 when nationalists in the North were dumped , again we are going to see a similar outcome to this Brexit tragedy.
If, by the 'Irish in Britain', you mean the lads down your pub, who seem like pigheaded sleeveen, cap doffing types of Irishmen, then you're probably right that an open forward looking nation won't entertain their nonsense. The lads in my local might disagree with the lads in your local by the way.

Just Sayin'
 

Prof Honeydew

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
5,222
How?

How can GPS tell you what's inside the truck?

How can GPS inspect a cow or a packet of sausages?
Simples.

View attachment 1809

I know this warehouse in Lynbrook, New York, which has been holding nearly a million pairs for the last fifty years. Good as new, unsold stock after a production overrun.

If you're interested in hula-hoops and yo-yos as well, I can get you as many as you like at a knockdown price.
 

londonpride

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
662
You've been asked this on another thread but ran away: in what way will Irish nationals in the UK be negatively affected?
Anti Irish sentiment could rise. Especially in Liverpool ,Bolton and Glasgow. People are taking notice of what Snarlene Foster is saying and support for her in certain sections of UK is very high. A lot of Irish are just keeping their heads down .
 

Dearghoul

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
8,623
Anti Irish sentiment could rise. Especially in Liverpool ,Bolton and Glasgow. People are taking notice of what Snarlene Foster is saying and support for her in certain sections of UK is very high. A lot of Irish are just keeping their heads down .
If we don't bow down to Arleen and the fascists, we'll be able to make common cause with our fellow immigrants.

Innit?

Oh....
 

SPN

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Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
16,890
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