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Coming up to Backstop "Crunch-Time" Krauts Break Ranks


Sync

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Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
You just don't get it OK. There's the bus coming down the tracks (or something) and Merkel and Juncker are preparing to throw paddy (or something) under it. Mmmk?
People politely say they’ll listen and chat to various UK representatives but the WA isn’t for renegotiating: “Look at the euroweenies! They’re about to break!”

Tusk impolitely says he’s had enough of these cretins: “look at the euroweenie! He’s about To break!”
 

yosef shompeter

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Dec 4, 2011
Messages
2,770
Leotard and his advisors are idiots. Throwing shapes to enforce an agreement that will result in a hard border because we don't want a hard border. Completely imbecilic
Just to remind you that it is a game of "Chicken" and hence a gamble.
If Theresa and the British Parliament go for a "No Deal" Brexit, then Ireland loses double-big time, North and South, UK loses big-big time (specially with the Irish-American lobby in Washington) and the the rest of Europe loses big time.
We need the UK more than they need us. The UK needs Europe more than Europe needs them.

The other alternative -- which may come as a humiliation especially for Arlene is to simply hold a general election in the UK. Find a parliamentary majority which will place the Customs Union border down the Irish sea and both sides (UK and EU) can walk away and do their own thing.
But on the EU side they must hold together. No breaking ranks. It's true that -- as in many situations- that the burden or the blow hits countries differently. Greece probably doesn't give a monkeys. They can sell their feta cheese to Turkey or Egypt. But Ireland, Belgium, Holland, France, Germany -- they'll be hit to varying degrees.

The Irish thinking and entire strategy these past year is that the Brits will compromise. It's a high risk game all right. I admit it.
 

yosef shompeter

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Dec 4, 2011
Messages
2,770
A classic example of the headline not matching the content of the story.
Where lies the disconnect? Pray, tell.
I urge you to read the entire through one more time. It seems pretty clear to me that Angela Merkel does not have dry knickers (or not prepared to run the risk) and is in appealing for a compromise. Study Leo's reply closely. He wants, or hopes that he can rely on the European solidarity.
Bear in mind that the deal has to be closed in one month's time. The most important hours and minutes are when coming up to the final agreement. He needs unamimity. The last thing that he needs is wavering in the ranks. or ummmm.... the appearance of wavering in the ranks.
To have one of the people with the most influence intervening like this for "creative solutions", it's not a good sign.
 

AhNowStop

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Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
8,017
Anti Irish sentiment could rise. Especially in Liverpool ,Bolton and Glasgow. People are taking notice of what Snarlene Foster is saying and support for her in certain sections of UK is very high. A lot of Irish are just keeping their heads down .
lmfao .. ah keep em coming lad thats lethal stuff :roflmao:
 

livingstone

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Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
24,330
Where lies the disconnect? Pray, tell.
I urge you to read the entire through one more time. It seems pretty clear to me that Angela Merkel does not have dry knickers (or not prepared to run the risk) and is in appealing for a compromise. Study Leo's reply closely. He wants, or hopes that he can rely on the European solidarity.
Bear in mind that the deal has to be closed in one month's time. The most important hours and minutes are when coming up to the final agreement. He needs unamimity. The last thing that he needs is wavering in the ranks. or ummmm.... the appearance of wavering in the ranks.
To have one of the people with the most influence intervening like this for "creative solutions", it's not a good sign.
Creative solutions = changes to the political declaration.

Creative solutions = addendum to the Withdrawal Agreement saying 'no we really really mean it - this is intended to be temporary'.

Creative solutions =/= ripping up the backstop or replacing it with non-existent unicorns.
 

livingstone

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Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
24,330
Just to remind you that it is a game of "Chicken" and hence a gamble.
If Theresa and the British Parliament go for a "No Deal" Brexit, then Ireland loses double-big time, North and South, UK loses big-big time (specially with the Irish-American lobby in Washington) and the the rest of Europe loses big time.
We need the UK more than they need us. The UK needs Europe more than Europe needs them.

The other alternative -- which may come as a humiliation especially for Arlene is to simply hold a general election in the UK. Find a parliamentary majority which will place the Customs Union border down the Irish sea and both sides (UK and EU) can walk away and do their own thing.
But on the EU side they must hold together. No breaking ranks. It's true that -- as in many situations- that the burden or the blow hits countries differently. Greece probably doesn't give a monkeys. They can sell their feta cheese to Turkey or Egypt. But Ireland, Belgium, Holland, France, Germany -- they'll be hit to varying degrees.

The Irish thinking and entire strategy these past year is that the Brits will compromise. It's a high risk game all right. I admit it.
The UK has ruled out a Northern Ireland specific customs arrangement since last February. That opposition was not solely driven by the DUP. None of this ends with a customs border in the Irish Sea - either they accept this backstop (possibly with some fairly meaningless addendum) or there is no deal. None of those will result in a customs border in the Irish Sea.
 

Mickeymac

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Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
38,162
Creative solutions = changes to the political declaration.

Creative solutions = addendum to the Withdrawal Agreement saying 'no we really really mean it - this is intended to be temporary'.

Creative solutions =/= ripping up the backstop or replacing it with non-existent unicorns.



The wordplay sir is probably the most boring component of this debacle the Brits have voted for.
 

Expose the lot of them

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Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
20,944
I have always said the govt was backing itself into a corner by demanding a region not part of the EU (in a few months possibly) should be part of the Customs Union and Single Market. It goes against the concept of the Single Market to have a non-EU country - or indeed part of one - in it completely without their being external barriers to non-EEA trade. It is true that Norway is part of the Single Market. But Norway also has hi-tech border security with Swede that can take 2 hours I've heard to get through.

The biggest mistake the govt was made was the alleged order to the Dept of Finance to stop investigating technological solutions. I have always argued for GPS tracking.
Care to tell us when that happened? The WA was revised, at May's demand, she signed it, now she has to placate the nutters that surround her.
 

Expose the lot of them

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In an age where mobiles can be tracked through GPS, I don't accept we can't do the same with hauliers to police non-EEA trade coming in through the UK.
Care to explain how a mobile phone GPS will conduct inspections on livestock, plants, vegetables, etc.?
 

Expose the lot of them

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Messages
20,944
We have been such fools - smartphones and GPS trackers are the solution that has eluded the finest minds of the EU!

Huzzah - I'm heading to the attic to break out the bunting and open up the food stockpile!
and the fizz, mustn't forget the fizz on such an auspicious occasion.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,231
Where lies the disconnect? Pray, tell.
I urge you to read the entire through one more time. It seems pretty clear to me that Angela Merkel does not have dry knickers (or not prepared to run the risk) and is in appealing for a compromise. Study Leo's reply closely. He wants, or hopes that he can rely on the European solidarity.
Bear in mind that the deal has to be closed in one month's time. The most important hours and minutes are when coming up to the final agreement. He needs unamimity. The last thing that he needs is wavering in the ranks. or ummmm.... the appearance of wavering in the ranks.
To have one of the people with the most influence intervening like this for "creative solutions", it's not a good sign.
Very simple. The Germans didn't break ranks - as was pointed out to you already, Merkel also said there'll be no renegotiation of the withdrawal agreement. All she said was something about creativity in finding solutions - something also said by Varadkar.
 

Titan

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Jul 1, 2015
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1,165
Website
www.forumbox.co.uk
Care to explain how a mobile phone GPS will conduct inspections on livestock, plants, vegetables, etc.?
People keep thinking that the "border" checks will happen at the border, they won't. They'll happen at the depots/factories transporting the goods.

A example, pigs from NI need to be transported into the republic for slaughter and processing, the checks will be done at the farms sending the pigs. Likewise, if the processed meat is sent back into NI, the checks would be done at the meat processing factory. And it won't mean every crate of meat being loaded into the lorries will be checked either, just say one crate out of hundred would get the full customs/health&safety/regulatory checks.

No need for GPS at all.
 

livingstone

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Mar 3, 2004
Messages
24,330
People keep thinking that the "border" checks will happen at the border, they won't. They'll happen at the depots/factories transporting the goods.

A example, pigs from NI need to be transported into the republic for slaughter and processing, the checks will be done at the farms sending the pigs. Likewise, if the processed meat is sent back into NI, the checks would be done at the meat processing factory. And it won't mean every crate of meat being loaded into the lorries will be checked either, just say one crate out of hundred would get the full customs/health&safety/regulatory checks.

No need for GPS at all.
You're just wrong. EU law requires live animal checks to take place at Border Inspection Posts.

You're right that much of manufactured goods can be checked on the market through risk-based market surveillance. But that's not the case for agricultural products, live animals or animal products.
 

owedtojoy

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Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
45,439
People keep thinking that the "border" checks will happen at the border, they won't. They'll happen at the depots/factories transporting the goods.

A example, pigs from NI need to be transported into the republic for slaughter and processing, the checks will be done at the farms sending the pigs. Likewise, if the processed meat is sent back into NI, the checks would be done at the meat processing factory. And it won't mean every crate of meat being loaded into the lorries will be checked either, just say one crate out of hundred would get the full customs/health&safety/regulatory checks.

No need for GPS at all.
As well as livingstone pointing out one error, you are assuming "regulatory alignment" on both sides of the border.

For example, if the UK changes its regulations to allow chlorinated chicken from the US, the whole regulatory structure will have to change, as vets on both sides of the border will now be working to different standards. You may agree a "trust system" whereby UK veterinary certificates are acceptable, but no trust system can exist without some checks. Even random selection of crates at the border (the only workable system) would demand an infrastructure.

The potential for abuse by smuggling gangs would be enormous, and the return to a criminal-terrorist subculture along the border would be inevitable.
 

McSlaggart

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Dec 29, 2010
Messages
16,917
The potential for abuse by smuggling gangs would be enormous, and the return to a criminal-terrorist subculture along the border would be inevitable.
[video=youtube;AY3ddrc6WjE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY3ddrc6WjE[/video]
 

Angler

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Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
1,663
I said it weeks ago, given the choice between 150,000 German manufactured cars being sold into Britain or not, and telling lickarse Varadkar to suck it up, we will get fuc3ked over without a doubt.
The UK could face a similar problem with the onward sale of these cars as used into the ROI market. I will be changing my car in the near future.Do I buy a secondhand import or a new Hybrid/Electric.
 
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