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Comments of Headmaster of Presentation Brothers College Cork on Drivetime


Neilob

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Dec 2, 2010
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1,173
I was listening to the headmaster of Presentation Brothers College in Cork speaking yesterday that private education was an investment in your children, and not spending money on 'expensive holidays and the beer'. I think this was very insulting to parents who opt to send their children to non fee paying schools, and also underlines a certain snobbery that state and non-fee paying schools are populated by a bunch of crackheads and burgeoning axe killers. This is even more distressing, I imagine, to parents who live in the majority of the country where there is no choice for the provision of education other than the local community school or voluntary non fee paying school: after all there are only 8 private schools in Munster. Clearly by that rationale the parents in most of these schools are chronic alcoholics who spend most of the year browning themselves in Torremolinos.

He also described the proposal to reduce the subvention to fee paying schools, particularly for PTR, as 'anti-catholic' and 'anti-middle class'. I'm open to correction, but I was always of the view that just 5% of schools in Catholic management were fee paying, therefore there is plenty of choice in ethos in the system already. Is this comment also not an attack on middle class parents in Cork, and elsewhere, who opt to use the State or non fee paying sector? Obviously, by this rationale, they are a bunch of free wheelers with no interest in their children's future.

In regard to investment in education, wouldn't it be more prudent for parents in Cork to begin saving for their children to go to UCC or beyond, once the inevitable return of fees are fully rolled out (mooted to be completed by 2016). COuld it be that parents are being pressurised by peer and societal pressure into sending their kids to schools with a certain uniform and blazer, and not making adequate provision for their Third Level education? Would society not be fairer if kids were selected for flag ship schools, not on the basis of ability to pay, but rather talent?

What kind of education system do we have that inculcates and reinforces class prejudice. If the headmaster of a leading fee paying school can make astonishing judgments and conclusions about the motivations of parents when selecting a school, can we expect the children in his care to grow into responsible, decent citizens? Or will they grow into self centred reactionaries sneering at the folly of their neighbours free wheeling off a social welfare education and blowing what little money they have panem et circenses
 
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Clanrickard

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33,034
I was listening to the headmaster of Presentation Brothers College in Cork speaking yesterday that private education was an investment in your children, and not spending money on 'expensive holidays and the beer'. I think this was very insulting to parents who opt to send their children to non fee paying schools, and also underlines a certain snobbery that state and non-fee paying schools are populated by a bunch of crackheads and burgeoning axe killers. This is even more distressing, I imagine, to parents who live in the majority of the country where there is no choice for the provision of education other than the local community school or voluntary non fee paying school: after all there are only 8 private schools in Munster. Clearly by that rationale the parents in most of these schools are chronic alcoholics who spend most of the year browning themselves in Torremolinos.

He also described the proposal to reduce the subvention to fee paying schools, particularly for PTR, as 'anti-catholic' and 'anti-middle class'. I'm open to correction, but I was always of the view that just 5% of schools in Catholic management were fee paying, therefore there is plenty of choice in ethos in the system already. Is this comment also not an attack on middle class parents in Cork, and elsewhere, who opt to use the State or non fee paying sector? Obviously, by this rationale, they are a bunch of free wheelers with no interest in their children's future.

In regard to investment in education, wouldn't it be more prudent for parents in Cork to begin saving for their children to go to UCC or beyond, once the inevitable return of fees are fully rolled out (mooted to be completed by 2016). COuld it be that parents are being pressurised by peer and societal pressure into sending their kids to schools with a certain uniform and blazer, and not making adequate provision for their Third Level education? Would society not be fairer if kids were selected for flag ship schools, not on the basis of ability to pay, but rather talent?

What kind of education system do we have that inculcates and reinforces class prejudice. If the headmaster of a leading fee paying school can make astonishing judgments and conclusions about the motivations of parents when selecting a school, can we expect the children in his care to grow into responsible, decent citizens? Or will they grow into self centred reactionaries sneering at the folly of their neighbours free wheeling off a social welfare education and blowing what little money they have on parties.
The question you should be asking is why are parents scrimping and saving to send their kids to fee paying schools as opposed to state schools/
 

Neilob

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The question you should be asking is why are parents scrimping and saving to send their kids to fee paying schools as opposed to state schools/
Obviously because they are populated by axe murderers and crackheads, but then again, maybe not........ Perhaps there is something else at play such as buying your way into the upper middle classes on the back of the Presentation Brothers vow of poverty? It'll be hard luck and you'll feel hard done by when fees at Third Level come back - definitely no Sun holiday then or trips to the pub just when you thought you had finished paying for your child's education.
 

Marina1962

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Dec 6, 2012
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God I couldn't agree more OP. ! What gets me is the idea that those whose send their kids to fee paying schools are more interested in their child's eduction than the rest of us.
And that the rest of us are spending our money on new cars and holidays. More bull. I have a 13 year old car,three kids in college, and no nights out.
And the idea that those who send their kids to private schools make sacrifices is laughable. One in a hundred maybe. The people I know with kids in private schools have newish cars, holidays to Africa and New Zealand, skiing in winter, and lovely houses. Oh and second and third houses I almost forgot.
Private schools are all about networking and connections to the "right" people, The education is no better than any state school
 

zakalwe1

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Oct 3, 2008
Messages
5,306
well skysports is approx 1,000 per annum and cigarettes are about 2,500 per annum so all those who smoke and have a sky sports channel could theoretically choose to send a child to pres cork or some other private school.

i went to a private school and there was a mix of children of very wealthy people, middle class professionals and even the son of a vegatable stall owner. its about how people choose to spend their money.

granted, times are hard at the moment (very hard), and there is less money being spent on celtic tiger luxuries, but private schools are also accommodating children who's parents are in financial difficulty.

also, i heard on the radio that travel agents are having a bumper year this year and with the current level of demand there will be no discounted late offer packages available. make of that what you will about people's spending habits.
 

Marina1962

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Bull bull bull. I'm telling you the parents of kids i know in private school don't have to choose between a holiday and school fees. They can do both!!!
 

sondagefaux

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The question you should be asking is why are parents scrimping and saving to send their kids to fee paying schools as opposed to state schools/
In Cork? I would suggest snobbery, because as a Cork person I can happily confirm that the quality of education available in most non fee-paying schools is at least as good as, in some cases better, than that available in Pres.

The headmaster's comments are patronising to say the least. The vast majority of parents don't send their kids to fee-paying schools because they are perfectly satisfied with the quality of education provided in non fee-paying schools or because they don't have the money.

Does this person really think that people who don't spend money on school fees use that money for expensive holidays or to buy alcohol instead?

His 'anti-Catholic' and 'anti-middle class' remarks are also nonsense. There are plenty of non fee-paying Catholic ethos secondary schools in Cork, including Coláiste an Spioraid Naoimh in Bishopstown, run by the Presentation Brothers. Maybe the parents of kids who go to this school are feckless alkies too?

Cork City Find Secondary Schools in Ireland by Category / County - SchoolDays.ie

The two major fee-paying schools in Cork city are Christians and Pres, both boys only. Of the two, Pres is regarded as the more socially prestigious and at least some parents, perhaps a majority, have this in mind when choosing to send their boys there.
 
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Morgellons

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Mar 24, 2012
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A lot of lower middle class people are suckers when it comes to sending their kids to private schools. They genuinely believe they're doing the best for their kids, they themselves remember the perceived prestige these schools had in their day. The schools gladly take the money and forget to mention on the brochure if you're not in the old boys' network no ammount of your money is going to get your kid in to it either.

I do like the smart blazers though, again that's all part of the 'allure.'
 

Hitch 22

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Who the hell wants to have their beautiful daughter who sings, plays piano, show jumps and has ambitions to become a doctor or lawyer sent to a scumbag school where she might be seduced and destroyed by a tracksuit and gold chain wearing tattooed scumbag, made pregnant and addicted to crack cocaine, heroin and crystal meth?
 

Clanrickard

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Obviously because they are populated by axe murderers and crackheads, but then again, maybe not........ Perhaps there is something else at play such as buying your way into the upper middle classes on the back of the Presentation Brothers vow of poverty? It'll be hard luck and you'll feel hard done by when fees at Third Level come back - definitely no Sun holiday then or trips to the pub just when you thought you had finished paying for your child's education.
I was sent to a fee paying school. The alternative was the local dump that offered no science subjects and where over half the leaving cert failed pass maths. On top of that the guards had to be called on several occasions because of fellas kicking the bejaysus out of each other. It is next to impossible to kick a skanger out of school in the state sector but private schools can sling them on their asses if they don't tow the line. This means discipline and higher standards. I am not saying there are no state schools with such standards but many parents have no choice. Not to mention the teachers are a law unto themselves in the state schools.
 

Aindriu

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I nearly threw something at the TV when he came out with that cac!

I haven't had a foreign holiday in 14 years and have only had the odd weekend away here than I can count on one hand in that time ever I could never afford private school fees for my children. Neither of us smoke, we have a couple of bottles of wine a week and only have one car as well. Nights out? Fat chance!
 

Morgellons

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Who the hell wants to have their beautiful daughter who sings, plays piano, show jumps and has ambitions to become a doctor or lawyer sent to a scumbag school where she might be seduced and destroyed by a tracksuit and gold chain wearing tattooed scumbag, made pregnant and addicted to crack cocaine, heroin and crystal meth?
That's a bit of an exaggeration, no?
 

sauntersplash

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Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
3,466
I was listening to the headmaster of Presentation Brothers College in Cork speaking yesterday that private education was an investment in your children, and not spending money on 'expensive holidays and the beer'. I think this was very insulting to parents who opt to send their children to non fee paying schools, and also underlines a certain snobbery that state and non-fee paying schools are populated by a bunch of crackheads and burgeoning axe killers. This is even more distressing, I imagine, to parents who live in the majority of the country where there is no choice for the provision of education other than the local community school or voluntary non fee paying school: after all there are only 8 private schools in Munster. Clearly by that rationale the parents in most of these schools are chronic alcoholics who spend most of the year browning themselves in Torremolinos.

He also described the proposal to reduce the subvention to fee paying schools, particularly for PTR, as 'anti-catholic' and 'anti-middle class'. I'm open to correction, but I was always of the view that just 5% of schools in Catholic management were fee paying, therefore there is plenty of choice in ethos in the system already. Is this comment also not an attack on middle class parents in Cork, and elsewhere, who opt to use the State or non fee paying sector? Obviously, by this rationale, they are a bunch of free wheelers with no interest in their children's future.

In regard to investment in education, wouldn't it be more prudent for parents in Cork to begin saving for their children to go to UCC or beyond, once the inevitable return of fees are fully rolled out (mooted to be completed by 2016). COuld it be that parents are being pressurised by peer and societal pressure into sending their kids to schools with a certain uniform and blazer, and not making adequate provision for their Third Level education? Would society not be fairer if kids were selected for flag ship schools, not on the basis of ability to pay, but rather talent?

What kind of education system do we have that inculcates and reinforces class prejudice. If the headmaster of a leading fee paying school can make astonishing judgments and conclusions about the motivations of parents when selecting a school, can we expect the children in his care to grow into responsible, decent citizens? Or will they grow into self centred reactionaries sneering at the folly of their neighbours free wheeling off a social welfare education and blowing what little money they have panem et circenses
Education is as much about being invested into societal "ways of being" as acquiring information and skills. If you'd like your children to associate with the sons and daughters of Barristers, Doctors, Accountants etc. and develop the confidence and social capital that goes with that, you send them to private school, if it means you have to eat bread for dinner to do so. If it's not all that important to you you send them to public school. There's a pretty good chance they'll end up doing alright either way if you attend to your other parental responsibilities.

I would say that entering adulthood with a cadre of friends and acquaintenances who come from money opens up the opportunities in a person's life enormously, but again, perhaps a wealth of opportunities aren't what everybody wants for their children.

Perhaps looking at things this way is wrong, but I'm not going to use my children to fight ideological battles. I'll do everything I can to make their lives happy and fulfilled.
 

sondagefaux

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Who the hell wants to have their beautiful daughter who sings, plays piano, show jumps and has ambitions to become a doctor or lawyer sent to a scumbag school where she might be seduced and destroyed by a tracksuit and gold chain wearing tattooed scumbag, made pregnant and addicted to crack cocaine, heroin and crystal meth?
Indeed. One shudders at the thought they may be exposed to people who may have shopped in Argos or Dunnes Stores...
 

Aindriu

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Do you want a daughter who could have been a qualified professional turned into a drugged out emaciated zombie and pimped out as an anal whore? :roll:
You are of course going t backup this cac with provable evidence?
 

Neilob

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Dec 2, 2010
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Education is as much about being invested into societal "ways of being" as acquiring information and skills. If you'd like your children to associate with the sons and daughters of Barristers, Doctors, Accountants etc. and develop the confidence and social capital that goes with that, you send them to private school, if it means you have to eat bread for dinner to do so. If it's not all that important to you you send them to public school. There's a pretty good chance they'll end up doing alright either way if you attend to your other parental responsibilities.

I would say that entering adulthood with a cadre of friends and acquaintenances who come from money opens up the opportunities in a person's life enormously, but again, perhaps a wealth of opportunities aren't what everybody wants for their children.

Perhaps looking at things this way is wrong, but I'm not going to use my children to fight ideological battles. I'll do everything I can to make their lives happy and fulfilled.
I remember going through the journals section of UCD around 2003 and an article was open in Business and Finance making this very point: that the movers and shakers in Irish society (profiled) went to fee paying schools and if you wanted your kids to be in this circle then private schools were the obvious choice. This was echoed in the mainstream press and media throughout the 2000s, most notably by Irish Independent commentators like John O'Keefe. In a country where one hears of 'golden circles', 'cozy capitalism' and is critised by outside agencies and the IMF for the way business is done here, is it healthy that some schools are inculcating a Masonic like inner circle, unable to be pierced by those from outside this secret elite? After all civil servants are forbidden from being members of secret societies and political organisations, but there is nothing to stop them from going to the past pupils Union annual dinner for a bit of networking.

I really appreciate your honesty because always, always, we hear the altruistic argument being made that parents who opt out of the free scheme are saving the State lots of dosh in the payment of capitation in the non fee paying sector. This is a convenient full stop to discussing the wider societal effects of a two tier education system. However is this argument actually true? Is it true that a non fee paying school, in addition to the payment of teacher's salary, receive a capitation in the region of 8000 per pupil? In a 1000 headcount, that's 8 million per annum per State and non fee paying voluntary: this is simply not possible otherwise pupils in non fee paying schools would be basking in clover and wearing tweed uniforms. We also know that there has been a huge boom in private schools in recent years. Sean Flynn, writing in the Irish Times in 2011, noted that St Gerards in Bray registered a 28% increase in enrollment; Gonzaga was up 11%, Belvedere and the Catholic University School were both up 10%. Therefore if these kids were to slide back into the state sector would we notice any significant change? Well we all seemed to get on by in the hungry 80s when parents scrimped and saved to put their children through University and not educating their kids in a certain social mileu.

Quite apart from the money from the money, is education not supposed to be a vehicle for broadening the mind and opening people to new possibilites, rather than creating conformist carbon copyouts of what went before, and reinforcing prejudice. Judging from some of the contributions posted here, some parents are doing little service to their kids in producing balanced, cultured and rounded human beings with a sense of responsibility to society.
 
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sauntersplash

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Indeed. One shudders at the thought they may be exposed to people who may have shopped in Argos or Dunnes Stores...
I think you're oversimplifying the issue. People from certain groups wear a distinct type of clothing, listen to certain types of music, speak and act in certain ways, have similar hobbies and interests and are more likely to welcome a newcomer who is similar in these regards. It's not necessarily about financial income, or expenditure. If your son or daughter has the cut of a "well to do" person it will open doors for them. It's wrong but it's a fact. It always has been and it always will be, it's human nature. Going to a fee paying and/or highly respected school will make this easier to achieve convincingly.
 

sondagefaux

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Indeed, mixing with the 'right type' is one of the primary reasons that parents send their kids to fee-paying schools.

There are very few parts of Ireland where the non fee-paying alternatives are so dreadful that parents are compelled to send their kids to fee-paying schools.
 

Bill

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You are of course going t backup this cac with provable evidence?
oops, prepare yourself for the youtube video of anal crack whore
 
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