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Compare Irish Health Insurance to US


seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
Health Reform Subsidy Calculator - Kaiser Health Reform

Above it a handy little calculator for US workers to work out how much Obama care will cost them. When I put in my numbers it came to nearly $11k for my family. Plus 'co-payments' (when the insurance company only partly covers a treatment cost) will now be capped at $6.5k/year.

Makes me happy to have VHI - which costs about €1,500 for the same. Who among P.iers would like to pay $11k for VHI?
 

Mr. Bumble

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Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
18,254
But if we put Michael O'Leary in charge of Health, he would sort everything out and every single person in the state would be paying €9.99 pa. Apparently.

He should give Obama a call.
 

Fritzbox

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
2,604
Health Reform Subsidy Calculator - Kaiser Health Reform

Above it a handy little calculator for US workers to work out how much Obama care will cost them. When I put in my numbers it came to nearly $11k for my family. Plus 'co-payments' (when the insurance company only partly covers a treatment cost) will now be capped at $6.5k/year.

Makes me happy to have VHI - which costs about €1,500 for the same. Who among P.iers would like to pay $11k for VHI?
Or compare it with Germany! Private health insurance is not for the faint-hearted in Germany, especially if you are a woman or getting on in years.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
Health Reform Subsidy Calculator - Kaiser Health Reform

Above it a handy little calculator for US workers to work out how much Obama care will cost them. When I put in my numbers it came to nearly $11k for my family. Plus 'co-payments' (when the insurance company only partly covers a treatment cost) will now be capped at $6.5k/year.

Makes me happy to have VHI - which costs about €1,500 for the same. Who among P.iers would like to pay $11k for VHI?
So, paying $11k for healthcare is Communism? What a wonderful world.
 

Roberto Jordan

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Jun 28, 2012
Messages
2,078
If healthy and self employed with no access to a group scheme though work, union, professional organistation Or state/ town residency then those are the numbers. But if you actually use your healthcare even just for regular family ailments and odd minor hospital procedure or course of physio etc a normal us health plan covers far more once you reach your deductible. Additionally most decent employers run plans. So in reality most people in Ireland who can afford VHI would likely be paying slightly more ( couple if hundred dollars) to be part of an employers plan in the US which would , in turn, provide far higher levels of coverage than the VHI for everything. Once deductible for year ( maybe 400 dollars) is reached everything us pretty much free.

I pay 1100 dollars for complete family coverage in an employers scheme

It's people in Ireland who depend on public care whom don't qualify for medical card that would be screwed in the US

US system if provision is massively flawed and suffes the same malign influence from healthcare industry and professionals as in Ireland. But if you are in a 'good job' you are likely getting better value for money and care in USA than Ireland. Just wouldn't want to have a conscience regarding plight of the uninsured
 

murf13

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
2,168
US health insurance = $11K a year only if you are healthy.
It's more like $18k pa for me with pre-existing condition.

And that's not including any deductibles.
 

seabhcan

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Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
So in reality most people in Ireland who can afford VHI would likely be paying slightly more ( couple if hundred dollars) to be part of an employers plan in the US which would , in turn, provide far higher levels of coverage than the VHI for everything. Once deductible for year ( maybe 400 dollars) is reached everything us pretty much free.
So even after paying up to $11,000 in the premium, you then have to also fork out the first $400 before your cover kicks in?

VHI (for all its flaws) works from day one. No deductible. (Usually) no lead in time for preexisting conditions.

Plus, VHI doesn't land employers with crippling costs for hiring people.
 

Victor Meldrew

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Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
7,184
It's people in Ireland who depend on public care whom don't qualify for medical card that would be screwed in the US

US system if provision is massively flawed and suffes the same malign influence from healthcare industry and professionals as in Ireland. But if you are in a 'good job' you are likely getting better value for money and care in USA than Ireland. Just wouldn't want to have a conscience regarding plight of the uninsured
Very good post, and the nub of the issue is the above quote.

For the really life threatening stuff, American healthcare is far better, and more cutting edge. but ultimately, you are right.
 

Roberto Jordan

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Jun 28, 2012
Messages
2,078
So even after paying up to $11,000 in the premium, you then have to also fork out the first $400 before your cover kicks in?

VHI (for all its flaws) works from day one. No deductible. (Usually) no lead in time for preexisting conditions.

Plus, VHI doesn't land employers with crippling costs for hiring people.
No , As I stated I pay around $1,100 for care not $11,000.....not much more than I paid in Ireland.....but once I spend $400 in a year, thats it....no 80 euro hello for GP, no hospital bills, no prescription fees.....nothing. And such employer or group schemes do not feature medficals or lengthy questionaires on pre-existing conditions. I could have a chronic illness and would be paying the same.

And VHI might kick in straight away with no deductible but just what does that mean when you are getting a fiver back here or a tenner back there for day to day stuff?? In both cases you are covered for a really big bill from day one.

As I said, the system is awful in terms of provison to poor or those who cannot access a group scheme. But I would wager the majority of VHI members in ireland, particualry in light of numbers dropping insurance, would be better off in the US as would not fall in those categories

I am not trying to justify the US system ....such a justicifcation would be almost immoral. However the Irish system is broken also. and fails a far higher percentage of population in my opinion.

I personally have much better and better value for money coverage and access here in the US than back home. This applies to dental and medical. For 300 dollars a year I can have pretty much all the work done on my teeth that I want. I went 10 years at home without seeing a dentist because it cost 90 euro a filling at a time when I was earning 17000 p.a.

At home I was paying for PRSI, VHI and also paying the actual bills and even after all that still had to wiat for simple procedures or access like a scan on a dodgy ankle etc.

However that is just me and other fortunates like me. The US system spends a fortune but rather like Ireland the monies are diverted into pockets of the industry and higher professionals.

My point though, is that there is at least a sugnificant cadre of US health care "customers" getting decent provision for day to day care.

In Ireland day to day health care provision is an alien concept to the working/ lower middle class that I come from.......its suprising how few doctor visits you need to take when the guy asks for 80 euro to say hello.

And finally that analysis at top smells. The whoel purpose of Obama care is to make sure that everyone has access to the type of insurance option I have ( which is already the case ofr 100's of millions of American residents)
 
Last edited:

mhagain

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Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,061
I'm having a hard time accepting an analysis from a foundation that used to be affiliated with another group that offered private health insurance: Kaiser Permanente - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not saying that they're wrong, just that I'd prefer to see a truly independent report, preferably from a non-US source, before forming an opinion.
 

NYCKY

Moderator
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
13,101
Health Reform Subsidy Calculator - Kaiser Health Reform

Above it a handy little calculator for US workers to work out how much Obama care will cost them. When I put in my numbers it came to nearly $11k for my family. Plus 'co-payments' (when the insurance company only partly covers a treatment cost) will now be capped at $6.5k/year.

Makes me happy to have VHI - which costs about €1,500 for the same. Who among P.iers would like to pay $11k for VHI?
I don't know about the reliability of the calculator but regardless of what people in the US pay, the quality of care is streets ahead of what the VHI gives. When I talk to my parents about their VHI premiums I am shocked at what they get for it. They still have to pay a small fortune for prescriptions and if they need a specialist, they are lucky if they can see one within a few months. Also in the US the testing and diagnosis is much more thorough.

For all the money that is spent on Healthcare in Ireland by the Government and people through VHI premiums, people get a very poor return for it.
 

Roberto Jordan

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Jun 28, 2012
Messages
2,078
I don't know about the reliability of the calculator but regardless of what people in the US pay, the quality of care is streets ahead of what the VHI gives. When I talk to my parents about their VHI premiums I am shocked at what they get for it. They still have to pay a small fortune for prescriptions and if they need a specialist, they are lucky if they can see one within a few months. Also in the US the testing and diagnosis is much more thorough.

For all the money that is spent on Healthcare in Ireland by the Government and people through VHI premiums, people get a very poor return for it.
Thats the point I was making earlier.
At home I was paying three times ( PRSI , VHI and the actual bills) and getting poor care. VHI was isply an insurance policy that porvided marginally better access/ care in the event I was seriously ill.

As you say teh level of care provided to the insured is far far more thorough. It is topical I guess but for insured ( and I stress insured) women in the US the idea that upon being found to be pregnant you are told go home and wait around for 12 weeks and then we'll see if you are still pregnant is horrifying, yet that is basically what happens at home with a first scan at end of first trimester

Both systems are crap. But as I stated, if you lucky enough to be insured in the US it is fantastic.......in ireland unless you are going to a high end private clinic or money is absolutely no object I just dont see that being teh case , serious illness / emergencies aside.

I keep coming back to it, but 80 eurpo hello money for a GP AFTER paying PRSI, Levies and VHI is scandalous.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

Thats the point I was making earlier.
At home I was paying three times ( PRSI , VHI and the actual bills) and getting poor care. VHI was isply an insurance policy that porvided marginally better access/ care in the event I was seriously ill.

As you say teh level of care provided to the insured is far far more thorough. It is topical I guess but for insured ( and I stress insured) women in the US the idea that upon being found to be pregnant you are told go home and wait around for 12 weeks and then we'll see if you are still pregnant is horrifying, yet that is basically what happens at home with a first scan at end of first trimester

Both systems are crap. But as I stated, if you lucky enough to be insured in the US it is fantastic.......in ireland unless you are going to a high end private clinic or money is absolutely no object I just dont see that being teh case , serious illness / emergencies aside.

I keep coming back to it, but 80 eurpo hello money for a GP AFTER paying PRSI, Levies and VHI is scandalous.
Roberto - what's the story with chronic conditions? Do the insurers put a cap on the amount you can claim?
 

Roberto Jordan

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Jun 28, 2012
Messages
2,078
Roberto - what's the story with chronic conditions? Do the insurers put a cap on the amount you can claim?
Not in my case at least. I sat down with my vhi policy and teh policy here one nigt as I knew nothing about system here and was worried based on the impression created in media at home.
I found little that was not better civered by US policy.
But am no expert.
However neither am I atypical of ordinary people living in states north of the Mason-dixon line
 

seanmacc

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Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
1,022
Bearing in mind in the US you also have to pay for having children.

We had our son in Washington state and had health insurance. The health insurance covered about $40,000 of the birthing and other costs. We were then sent a bill for the guts of $30,000 which included $6,000 for 2 hours in the infant ICU. It was only because we were deemed low income (I was awaiting my work permit and couldn't work and my wife strategically kept her working hours low) the Washington department of human sevices footed the bill. Many states don't have these programmes unless you're on the street poor.

We moan about maternity care in this country but at least you aren't afraid to have kids due to the costs.
 

Roberto Jordan

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Jun 28, 2012
Messages
2,078
Bearing in mind in the US you also have to pay for having children.

We had our son in Washington state and had health insurance. The health insurance covered about $40,000 of the birthing and other costs. We were then sent a bill for the guts of $30,000 which included $6,000 for 2 hours in the infant ICU. It was only because we were deemed low income (I was awaiting my work permit and couldn't work and my wife strategically kept her working hours low) the Washington department of human sevices footed the bill. Many states don't have these programmes unless you're on the street poor.

We moan about maternity care in this country but at least you aren't afraid to have kids due to the costs.
Again depends on circumstance. I am in an ordinary enough job with a standard health plan on east coast. Have asked co-workers about maternity costs on basis that may need such services in future ( not personally :))!! Noting of the order you have stated, or anything like it. Maternity care is covere din plan , full stop.
I believe most poeple living in north east and upper midwest who are in permanent empolyment or unionised/ professionally origanised job are in exact smae boat. And in states like NY and MA it is most people in general.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

Not in my case at least. I sat down with my vhi policy and teh policy here one nigt as I knew nothing about system here and was worried based on the impression created in media at home.
I found little that was not better civered by US policy.
But am no expert.
However neither am I atypical of ordinary people living in states north of the Mason-dixon line
Thanks!
 

firefly123

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Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,155
Bearing in mind in the US you also have to pay for having children.

We had our son in Washington state and had health insurance. The health insurance covered about $40,000 of the birthing and other costs. We were then sent a bill for the guts of $30,000 which included $6,000 for 2 hours in the infant ICU. It was only because we were deemed low income (I was awaiting my work permit and couldn't work and my wife strategically kept her working hours low) the Washington department of human sevices footed the bill. Many states don't have these programmes unless you're on the street poor.

We moan about maternity care in this country but at least you aren't afraid to have kids due to the costs.
Irish public maternity care is excellent. Fully free of charge including GP visits. Decent care in the hospital with the only real difference being you don't see the Same consultant each time.
 
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