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Compensation culture


Buchaill Dana

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Mar 19, 2018
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How do you know the hole in the ground wasn't made by the occupants of the house? Take a look at the photo of it. It seems to be an imprint of something rather than wear and tear. Even if you were to hold the LA to some extraordinarily high standard where they install a completely risk free surface, what's to stop someone from damaging it themselves and then a child falling

And why 35K? The child was immobilised for 5 weeks, but made a full recovery.
Who put the hole there is not the point. There was a hole, the council were aware of the hole and took no action. Thats as straight as it gets legally.
 


Orbit v2

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Dec 8, 2010
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Who put the hole there is not the point. There was a hole, the council were aware of the hole and took no action. Thats as straight as it gets legally.
I would accept that the council have some duty of care. An annual inspection and minor repairs or some kind of warning to keep away from specific spots. But, that's it in my book. You can't reasonably expect the council to be waiting outside with a repair crew the moment some damage occurs, or even the day after someone phones up with a report.

Here's another idea. How about the council makes it a condition of rental that minor repairs to surfaces around the property should be the responsibility of the tenant. How many people on a waiting list currently would be happy to accept that as a rental condition? Most if not all I would say.
 

Buchaill Dana

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I
I would accept that the council have some duty of care. An annual inspection and minor repairs or some kind of warning to keep away from specific spots. But, that's it in my book. You can't reasonably expect the council to be waiting outside with a repair crew the moment some damage occurs, or even the day after someone phones up with a report.

Here's another idea. How about the council makes it a condition of rental that minor repairs to surfaces around the property should be the responsibility of the tenant. How many people on a waiting list currently would be happy to accept that as a rental condition? Most if not all I would say.
Until they do... I think the complaints kill your argument
 

Orbit v2

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Until they do... I think the complaints kill your argument
Not really. I don't know if the council contested this case, but it doesn't seem reasonable to me to just expect the council to react immediately when there is a complaint. There is plenty of precedent, for example with supermarkets where someone slips on a wet floor and suffers an injury. It's not enough that the spillage occurred. Yes, once it is brought to the attention of the management it's reasonable to expect a quick reaction in that case, but how quick a reaction should we expect from the council who are managing thousands of similar properties spread over the expanse of Dublin? There has to be some prioritisation of maintenance in this case, as in you know actually dangerous situations need to be dealt with first. It seems reasonable to me that the council should be able to say "fill the hole with a bucket of sand until we get to it"....

... which brings us to the matter of contributory negligence. That is one area that needs to be tightened up. If the primary cause of an accident was the contributory negligence of the complainant (or someone close to them), then the compo should be zero imo, not some percentage of the original fantasy figure claimed was and is still a nice tidy sum thank you very much.
 

Buchaill Dana

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Where are you getting immediate from? The family had requested, followed up and then complained.

This clearly was a failing on their part
 

Orbit v2

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Where are you getting immediate from? The family had requested, followed up and then complained.

This clearly was a failing on their part
The report just said there was a complaint prior to the accident. It doesn't say how much beforehand it was. I don't think it's clear at all unless you address the questions I raised.
 

artfoley56

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Mar 24, 2011
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Where are you getting immediate from? The family had requested, followed up and then complained.

This clearly was a failing on their part
And the parents owed a duty of care to the girl as well so should have stopped her playing in the back yard until such a glaring danger was remedied. The council should have joined the parents as co defendants.
 

ruman

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Feb 24, 2015
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I'd actually agree with the chief justice on that. You can't change the system on the basis of a nod and a wink. There would have to be some proper legal instrument which underpins the change. If it can't be something simple, it will have to be actually recalibrating the BOQ and putting it on a statutory basis.

Extraordinary case this here:

32 million in compensation awarded and parents thought it should have been more. While I have no doubt that the child's problems are genuine and negligence may have occurred this is absolute madness. What happened to the system of periodic payments that was supposed to be brought in?

There must be a more efficient way of delivering the kind of care to a child like this, on an ongoing basis for the rest of their life. Why is the Irish tax payer required to fund treatment in London for instance, and buy him a house in one of the most expensive cities in the world? What if the family had moved to Monte Carlo, would we have had to buy a house there? There seems to be no sense of perspective or that tax revenue is not a bottomless source of funds.

For that kind of money, surely the health service here could establish a unit to cater for children like this and take care of a number of them, rather than replicating expensive solutions individually wherever the familes decide to go in the world.
So you ban families from moving abroad due to the incompetence of a doctor?
The mother worked in investment banking an industry that takes place mostly in major cities like NY and London.

Our health service here cant even provide speech , occupational and physical therapy to kids with special needs hence the huge waiting list.

Those awards are carefully costed by actuaries and medical experts from both sides. In regard to periodic payments a number of high court judges have highlighted the failure of our legislators on the issue. If someone crashed into you would it be your fault or the fault of the other driver? Why due you think it acceptable to punish this child and his family yet the doctor walks away scot free?

It is our legislators who are responsible for dragging that poor family through the courts and subjecting the poor child to a battery of tests. The HSE/Hospital and Medics by denying negligence contribute significantly to legal costs. Medical experts profit hugely as a result of providing various reports for the courts.
 

Orbit v2

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The astronomical size of the award just isn't sustainable. It doesn't sit well with me that just because the mother is an investment banker, the award gets to be this enormous sum. I'm not familiar with the details of the case, as to the nature of the actual alleged negligence but we know that our system of compensation is weighted against the medics. The levels of compensation for injuries ocurring at birth are higher here than most other countries. Does this mean that Irish doctors are so much more incompetent, or that we are offering compensation for bad things that might have happened regardless? Though, I know this case was not about an injury from birth. Also, do you seriously expect the state to hand over tens of millions without requiring tests and some formal legal process? That is absurd.
 

Buchaill Dana

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You are fond of pontificating at named people without bothering with the whole research thing
 

Orbit v2

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You are fond of pontificating at named people without bothering with the whole research thing
I'm as entitled as you are to comment on where my tax euros are spent. You seem to have a problem with that. Would you be a lawyer by any chance?
 

ruman

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The astronomical size of the award just isn't sustainable. It doesn't sit well with me that just because the mother is an investment banker, the award gets to be this enormous sum. I'm not familiar with the details of the case, as to the nature of the actual alleged negligence but we know that our system of compensation is weighted against the medics. The levels of compensation for injuries ocurring at birth are higher here than most other countries. Does this mean that Irish doctors are so much more incompetent, or that we are offering compensation for bad things that might have happened regardless? Though, I know this case was not about an injury from birth. Also, do you seriously expect the state to hand over tens of millions without requiring tests and some formal legal process? That is absurd.

So if the mother has to sacrifice her career to care for the child she shoudnt be compensated?

Do you have any comparisons with other countries to back up your claim?

How do the salaries of medical staff here compare with other countries? ( the package includes care costs which is mostly salaries).

No i dont expect the state to hand over millions for nothing i was simply pointing out that the medical profession ( along with the legal profession) are earning a fortune from medical expert reports in these cases.

Why do you question the money the child gets but not our godlike doctors !!!
 

Florence

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Oct 13, 2013
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Brian Crowley retiring MEP leaving with huge goodbye money and pension to look forward to. He hadn't actually acted as an MEP for some years as his health declined but despite pressure from some party members, he did not resign and I don't think the system could have made him go.
 

bang bang

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Jul 11, 2010
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Brian Crowley retiring MEP leaving with huge goodbye money and pension to look forward to. He hadn't actually acted as an MEP for some years as his health declined but despite pressure from some party members, he did not resign and I don't think the system could have made him go.
A shocking surprise that, can anyone explain his huge popularity.
 

Ardillaun

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Jun 4, 2010
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It baffles me that many Irish people see nothing amiss with massive awards so out of line with our EU peers. They add to the cost of doing virtually anything in the country.

Is there an historical account of the development of Ireland’s peculiar compo culture? I don’t remember things being like this in the Seventies or Eighties but I may be wrong.
 
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Orbit v2

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It baffles me that many Irish people see nothing amiss with massive awards so out of line with our EU peers. They add to the cost of doing virtually anything in the country.
It's amazing what people get used to when (the most of us) have never lived abroad and seen how things are done elsewhere.

Was just listening to Willie O'Dea (a solicitor as well as politician) this morning on another subject. Quite a reasonable opinion expressed on restorative justice, and parents being made financially liable for damage caused by their children's anti-social behavior. He just threw in a comment then that maybe when parents get a windfall, such as a court award, maybe that could be tapped to pay compensation. Again, not a bad thing, but there's an assumption underlying it, that compensation awards are something normal, a bit like inheritance to the middle classes.
Is there an historical account of the development of Ireland’s peculiar compo culture? I don’t remember things being like this in the Seventies or Eighties but I may be wrong.
There has always been a highly conservative, individualistic bent to our legal system. The state is evil and the individual is king. What has changed in recent decades is the growing pot of money, from the tax payer, and insurance companies to be soaked. It really took off with no-foal no-fee legal actions, and solicitors portraying themselves as quasi- social welfare centres eg as "accident claim centres" and the like. But, some of the most egregious of that stuff is no longer allowed.
 

artfoley56

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Mar 24, 2011
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It's amazing what people get used to when (the most of us) have never lived abroad and seen how things are done elsewhere.

Was just listening to Willie O'Dea (a solicitor as well as politician) this morning on another subject. Quite a reasonable opinion expressed on restorative justice, and parents being made financially liable for damage caused by their children's anti-social behavior. He just threw in a comment then that maybe when parents get a windfall, such as a court award, maybe that could be tapped to pay compensation. Again, not a bad thing, but there's an assumption underlying it, that compensation awards are something normal, a bit like inheritance to the middle classes.

There has always been a highly conservative, individualistic bent to our legal system. The state is evil and the individual is king. What has changed in recent decades is the growing pot of money, from the tax payer, and insurance companies to be soaked. It really took off with no-foal no-fee legal actions, and solicitors portraying themselves as quasi- social welfare centres eg as "accident claim centres" and the like. But, some of the most egregious of that stuff is no longer allowed.
id hardly be relying on a perjurer........
 

cobhguy

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Jun 22, 2010
Messages
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It baffles me that many Irish people see nothing amiss with massive awards so out of line with our EU peers. They add to the cost of doing virtually anything in the country.

Is there an historical account of the development of Ireland’s peculiar compo culture? I don’t remember things being like this in the Seventies or Eighties but I may be wrong.
It baffles me that there always seems to be a reporter present when these judgements are made, as if someone told them.
 

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