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Computer giant Apple avoiding $25 billion in taxes with secret Irish tax haven


Socratus O' Pericles

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Computer giant Apple avoiding $25 billion in taxes with secret Irish tax haven


Computer giant Apple has been accused of using offshore operations in Ireland to avoid billions of dollars in US taxes. The total for Ireland may be as high as $25 billion over the past three years

It says Apple was incorporated in Ireland in 1980 and reported income totalling $30 billion from 2009-12.

A second Irish subsidiary, Apple Sales International, which the computer manufacturer claims is also not tax-resident anywhere, had sales revenue of $74 billion over the same period.

The report adds that the subcommittee claims that the iPhone and iPad manufacturer has negotiated a tax rate of less than 2 per cent with the Irish Government. This is significantly lower than the State’s 12.5 per cent corporate tax rate.

I am a left wing begrudger living in a miasma of hate against those who have get up and go and want to make something of themselves and am therefore not qualified to speak

So can someone of a more right wing disposition please explain to me how the above is right.......morally...............legally........economically..............spiritually.......philosophically.


Thanks very much:p


<Mod> Posts have been moved to this thread from here. </Mod>
 
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Dylan2010

Computer giant Apple avoiding $25 billion in taxes with secret Irish tax haven





I am a left wing begrudger living in a miasma of hate against those who have get up and go and want to make something of themselves and am therefore not qualified to speak

So can someone of a more right wing disposition please explain to me how the above is right.......morally...............legally........economically..............spiritually.......philosophically.


Thanks very much:p
better Apple developing new products and advancing computer technology than the US government improving Drone technology :D
 

LamportsEdge

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If this goes on the international tax avoidance will soon be declared a terrorist activity in the US.
Entirely possible. The original impetus for 'white listing' of banks and so on behind this international crackdown on financial havens was because the funding for 9/11 terrorists came through the legitimate banking system from Bahrain. The Americans have been driving the examination and oversight of money flows in and out of havens ever since at OECD level.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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.........the subcommittee has highlighted how Apple has taken advantage of a difference between Irish and US tax residency rules.
Irish subsidiary, Apple Operations International, is incorporated in Ireland but it does not pay taxes in Ireland because the company is neither managed nor controlled in Ireland.
The company also does not pay taxes in the US either because it is not US tax-resident under US tax law.
Senator Carl Levin, a Democrat from Michigan and chairman of the subcommittee, said: “Apple wasn’t satisfied with shifting its profits to a low-tax offshore tax haven

“Apple has created offshore entities holding tens of billions of dollars, claiming to be tax resident nowhere.”

This is deeply immoral in my view. The don't give tax to the Govt. because they might waster soome of it nonsense hardly applies here. This is just naked greed .......or am I missing some deeeper philosophical point?
 
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Dylan2010

This is deeply immoral in my view. The don't give tax to the Govt. because they might waster soome of it nonsense hardly applies here. This is just naked greed .......or am I missing some deeeper philosophical point?
just a mundane one, one never has to pay a cent more then one is legally obliged to do.
 

LamportsEdge

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just a mundane one, one never has to pay a cent more then one is legally obliged to do.
So much for corporate social responsibility. Does Apple have such a policy? If they do it is rendered utterly pointless by this sort of coverage.
 
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Dylan2010

So much for corporate social responsibility. Does Apple have such a policy? If they do it is rendered utterly pointless by this sort of coverage.
Im not sure how the 2 are connected. Profits are normally paid out via dividends so they become income of the shareholders and can be taxed there, in the meantime they are under no obligation to chase after the taxman and throw money at them thus undermining their own ability to reinvest which is good for everyone. what do we want.....More Ipads less Drones!
 

LamportsEdge

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Im not sure how the 2 are connected. Profits are normally paid out via dividends so they become income of the shareholders and can be taxed there, in the meantime they are under no obligation to chase after the taxman and throw money at them thus undermining their own ability to reinvest which is good for everyone. what do we want.....More Ipads less Drones!
Fine. Seize Apples property, premises and any cash travelling through the Irish jurisdiction and refuse to release any of it except for shares in which the state could expect dividends then- somewhere to the level of 12.5% corporation tax. Sorted.

Apple are no different to Dupont Chemicals. They make shiny things which attract consumer jackdaws. We could at least be sensible enough to charge them rent for their nest.

And who is going to pay your state pension? Apple or the Irish State? Guess what answer you'd get from Apple? Were you born in a brand warehouse or somewhere?
 

LamportsEdge

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There's a philosophical argument that the more one withholds in tax from any government the less they have to waste on their mates. Quite a valid one when you think of Italy and Greece.

I've never noticed any appreciable keenness by the so-called leaders of Irish society to pay tax and a hell of an effort at actively avoiding it down the decades.

Then again why should they or multinational boards pay tax in Ireland when there is a set of mugs available to divide the bill between?
 
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Dylan2010

Fine. Seize Apples property, premises and any cash travelling through the Irish jurisdiction and refuse to release any of it except for shares in which the state could expect dividends then- somewhere to the level of 12.5% corporation tax. Sorted.

Apple are no different to Dupont Chemicals. They make shiny things which attract consumer jackdaws. We could at least be sensible enough to charge them rent for their nest.

And who is going to pay your state pension? Apple or the Irish State? Guess what answer you'd get from Apple? Were you born in a brand warehouse or somewhere?
the profits would never be "irish profits" , in music terms if Apple was Bono , Ireland would be its roadies, nothing more nothing less. If the US gov. want to go around crushing its corporates so be it but don't be under any illusion that Ireland is missing out somehow.
 

Franker65

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Aside from the tax, surely the extraction of such massive volumes of money from circulation for these tiny devices are contributing to the desperate state of the US economy? With the tax issue, I'm glad this kind of thing is coming under closer scrutiny.
 
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Dylan2010

Aside from the tax, surely the extraction of such massive volumes of money from circulation for these tiny devices are contributing to the desperate state of the US economy? With the tax issue, I'm glad this kind of thing is coming under closer scrutiny.
more likely propping up banks and the debt market's cashflow, they don't bury the cash.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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just received another infraction for posting to this thread in the feedback forum by stringjack. Would it be OK to move this thread to economics?
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Thanks for moving it .................never spotted it was in feedback.:oops:


In any event is there anyone out there who can justify Aple paying an effective tax rate of 2.5% whilst very poor people are being persecuted by the revenue.
 

ChickenBiryani

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Thanks for moving it .................never spotted it was in feedback.:oops:


In any event is there anyone out there who can justify Aple paying an effective tax rate of 2.5% whilst very poor people are being persecuted by the revenue.
Of course there isn't. The big story here is not the rate its the deal. I have long suspected Irish CT figures didn't stack up even at the 12.5% rate. I'd be curious to know who did this deal and if others are out there (almost certainly yes).

By the way, this is as much a US story as an Irish Story.
 

Ren84

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Breaking: Drones spotted over Holyhill in Cork targeting enemy combatants. :?
 

Andycap

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Meh, americans talking out both sides of their mouth.

They want the world to jump to its tune but do nothing about delaware company law.

These companies are all banking on a temporary tax amnesty.
 

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