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Connected Citizens - from a Northern Protestant Irishman

McSlaggart

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Dec 29, 2010
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17,285
Firstly, you really need to do better than use Wikipedia as your source of definitions in a discussion about international law.

Secondly, again, nothing you posted proves what you think it does. Northern Ireland being part of a united Ireland does not mean it automatically ceases to exist as an entity.

What you need to give is a reason why it should exist. More to the point if it did exist why would it not include Donegal?
 


livingstone

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Mar 3, 2004
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24,283
What you need to give is a reason why it should exist. More to the point if it did exist why would it not include Donegal?
I would only need to do that if I was arguing that it should exist. All I am doing is pointing out what the legal default is to point out just one aspect of the absurdity of your claim that there is no complexity in a vote for a united Ireland.

Now, as I said, you might not think that default should be the case. But it doesn't matter what you think or what I think.

The fact is that in the absence of agreement between Ireland and the UK to the contrary, the entity of NI, its governance institutions and the GFA itself will all continue to exist in a united Ireland. I don't need to argue or prove that that is a good thing for it to be the truth.
 

firefly123

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Dec 8, 2009
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27,967
James Nesbitt comes across as decent and likeable.
In my experience, people like him are at least as representative of of Ulster Protestantism than most of the barking gobdaws who post on this site and claim that origin.
Well of course he is. Most Irish people are down to earth, reasonable people who share a similar sense of humour. The extremists get the air time unfortunately.
 

McSlaggart

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Dec 29, 2010
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The fact is that in the absence of agreement between Ireland and the UK to the contrary, the entity of NI, its governance institutions and the GFA itself will all continue to exist in a united Ireland. I don't need to argue or prove that that is a good thing for it to be the truth.

That would not be a united Ireland!!!!!
 
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livingstone

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Mar 3, 2004
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That would not be a united Ireland!!!!!
In your view, perhaps. In the plain meaning of words, a country and be united in many forms. A federal structure, a unitary structure with devolution - no one would argue that the UK is not a united country (legally at least, whatever about socially), nor Germany or Switzerland or the US.

Legally, there is nothing about the term 'united Ireland' that implies it must be a unitary state. Hence there is nothing contradictory about a united Ireland having as a constituent part Northern Ireland with devolved powers, functions and governance with other functions reserved to Dublin.

You are perfectly entitled to your views as to what unity should look like. Your mistake is in assuming that your preferences are some simple default under international law. They are not.
 

Pyewacket

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Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
1,799
Do you understand that Ireland is a unitary state?

Be fair. It means a 32 country Ireland could be a federal state.

WTF.

As long as that 32 state is the Irish state, and not a part of the British state, I couldn't care less.

The UK is the problem. Even the Brits realise this, because they can't get their Brexit while they are still the UK, n'yuk, nyuk. :)
 

McSlaggart

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Dec 29, 2010
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Its to small not to be a unitary state.

If it was not a unitary state "Northern Ireland" would have to include Donegal at the very least.
 

Pyewacket

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Mar 24, 2019
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Its to small not to be a unitary state.

If it was not a unitary state "Northern Ireland" would have to include Donegal at the very least.
I agree. I don't think Ireland could be a federal state, I mean that is silly. It is too ****ing small.

It could have stronger regional development, so not every ****er ends up in Dublin.
 

Ardillaun

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Jun 4, 2010
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11,485
Switzerland isn’t too small to have 26 cantons. Something less than five, probably two or three, would probably suffice in Ireland. Just an idea, like. Even if we didn’t do that, we could take the opportunity to strengthen municipal government. Irish government is too centralized.
 
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raetsel

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Jun 5, 2017
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7,598
Switzerland isn’t too small to have 26 cantons. Something less than five, probably two or three, would probably suffice in Ireland. Just an idea, like. Even if we didn’t do that, we could take the opportunity to strengthen municipal government. Irish government is too centralized.
Anyone who seriously suggests giving the Healy-Rae family more power over Kerry needs to look in the mirror and give himself a good telling-off. :)
 

Ardillaun

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Jun 4, 2010
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Anyone who seriously suggests giving the Healy-Rae family more power over Kerry needs to look in the mirror and give himself a good telling-off. :)
Ireland’s political problems do not begin and end with the Healy-Raes. Alternatively, we could do away with democracy entirely.
 

Emily Davison

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Jun 9, 2013
Messages
29,978
It’s not often we hear the views of NI loyalists. So this is an interestingly article on some of their current views, in light of Brexit.


- seem very sensitive to anything Leo or Coveney says about NI (calling them ‘aggressive’ and ‘green’)
- think there are weaknesses in the GFA
- these older loyalists want peace, but wonder will younger loyalists return to violence
- they don’t want a hard border
- three out of the four of them didn’t want Brexit
- feel that both English and Scottish nationalism could break up the UK
- identifies that both sides up north barely able to deal with each other
- feel that loyalists need to persuade nationalists of the benefits of the UK
- two of the four men don’t trust the UK government and certainly not Corbyn/Labour)

How do posters on pie feel about the views expressed in the article.
 
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petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,522
That's an interesting one. It really begs the question of who the 45% in NI who voted for Brexit were?
Or perhaps they've changed their minds since, and just prefer to forget they were ever taken in?

There are a couple of UK-based posters here who at the time said they voted Leave, but you wouldn't think it to see their posts now. I assume something similar can be observed among our unionist brethren.
 


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