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Conscience Vote


Bishop Casey

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
617
“When the whips are off, parliament has a new vitality” Peter Richards, Political historian,

Regardless of his motivation, Michael Martin has made a decision today that should become the Fianna Fáil position on all issues of conscience into the future. As we have seen in similar parliaments in the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand the parliament comes alive when the whip system is removed. Party leaders allowing members to vote on issues of conscience (e.g. gay marriage, gambling, pornography, divorce, sale of alcohol, voting age etc etc) will allow back benchers to re-define themselves as something other than funeral attending, pot hole fillers. Many back benchers will fear being lobbied and will fear having to make a decision that will upset some of their constituents but that is something that their counterparts have to deal with in other countries.

Enda Kenny & Eamonn Gilmore have both said that they will impose their will on all members of their political parties on the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Bill which has yet again demonstrated the cowardice of both men. If your position is so strong and your bill carries so much support then please stand up on the floor of the parliament and sell your position to the members of your and other parties. The sight of TD’s who are fundamentally opposed to this bill walking through to vote yes will yet again demonstrate that our parliament is a broken entity and behind our international colleagues.

People voted for change in the last election, they didn’t get it, they will vote for change again.
 

neiphin

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
5,579
the spin is on

remember dessie o'mally
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
“When the whips are off, parliament has a new vitality” Peter Richards, Political historian,

Regardless of his motivation, Michael Martin has made a decision today that should become the Fianna Fáil position on all issues of conscience into the future. As we have seen in similar parliaments in the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand the parliament comes alive when the whip system is removed. Party leaders allowing members to vote on issues of conscience (e.g. gay marriage, gambling, pornography, divorce, sale of alcohol, voting age etc etc) will allow back benchers to re-define themselves as something other than funeral attending, pot hole fillers. Many back benchers will fear being lobbied and will fear having to make a decision that will upset some of their constituents but that is something that their counterparts have to deal with in other countries.

Enda Kenny & Eamonn Gilmore have both said that they will impose their will on all members of their political parties on the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Bill which has yet again demonstrated the cowardice of both men. If your position is so strong and your bill carries so much support then please stand up on the floor of the parliament and sell your position to the members of your and other parties. The sight of TD’s who are fundamentally opposed to this bill walking through to vote yes will yet again demonstrate that our parliament is a broken entity and behind our international colleagues.

People voted for change in the last election, they didn’t get it, they will vote for change again.
And they still won't get it. Partly because no two people who are not members of the same political party will agree what 'change' means.
 

FrankSpeaks

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
4,625
Is it curtains for Mick Martin?

Lets face it; he couldn't impose his will on the god fearing (probably afraid of losing the Holy Mary vote) TD's in his party
 

neiphin

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
5,579
Is it curtains for Mick Martin?

Lets face it; he couldn't impose his will on the god fearing (probably afraid of losing the Holy Mary vote) TD's in his party
some off the hacks from here are gone off tonight to see how to spin this
 

Bishop Casey

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
617
And they still won't get it. Partly because no two people who are not members of the same political party will agree what 'change' means.
Yea, I remember in the last dáil members of FG roaring and shouting about not having insufficient time to debate the finance bill as it was "guillotined" through the dáil and I see the exact same people smirking across the house now when the current opposition makes the same complaint.

Sadly political reform will be left to the government of the day. For the life of me I don’t understand why this government, considering their majority and the closeness to retirement of so many cabinet members, don’t attempt to make the dáil relevant. So many of them spent their careers on opposition benches, they know what is wrong and have no interest in fixing it.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
Yea, I remember in the last dáil members of FG roaring and shouting about not having insufficient time to debate the finance bill as it was "guillotined" through the dáil and I see the exact same people smirking across the house now when the current opposition makes the same complaint.

Sadly political reform will be left to the government of the day. For the life of me I don’t understand why this government, considering their majority and the closeness to retirement of so many cabinet members, don’t attempt to make the dáil relevant. So many of them spent their careers on opposition benches, they know what is wrong and have no interest in fixing it.
They have heirs to consider.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,093
Is it curtains for Mick Martin?

Lets face it; he couldn't impose his will on the god fearing (probably afraid of losing the Holy Mary vote) TD's in his party
Yeah, because lets face it, no one's against abortion.

Where does this site get them from?
 

FrankSpeaks

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
4,625

james5001

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
11,503
“When the whips are off, parliament has a new vitality” Peter Richards, Political historian,

Regardless of his motivation, Michael Martin has made a decision today that should become the Fianna Fáil position on all issues of conscience into the future. As we have seen in similar parliaments in the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand the parliament comes alive when the whip system is removed. Party leaders allowing members to vote on issues of conscience (e.g. gay marriage, gambling, pornography, divorce, sale of alcohol, voting age etc etc) will allow back benchers to re-define themselves as something other than funeral attending, pot hole fillers. Many back benchers will fear being lobbied and will fear having to make a decision that will upset some of their constituents but that is something that their counterparts have to deal with in other countries.

Enda Kenny & Eamonn Gilmore have both said that they will impose their will on all members of their political parties on the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Bill which has yet again demonstrated the cowardice of both men. If your position is so strong and your bill carries so much support then please stand up on the floor of the parliament and sell your position to the members of your and other parties. The sight of TD’s who are fundamentally opposed to this bill walking through to vote yes will yet again demonstrate that our parliament is a broken entity and behind our international colleagues.

People voted for change in the last election, they didn’t get it, they will vote for change again.
Is this cowardice you speak of also present in the leaders of the FF government when they imposed their will on their members? Genuine question.
 

james5001

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
11,503
Yea, I remember in the last dáil members of FG roaring and shouting about not having insufficient time to debate the finance bill as it was "guillotined" through the dáil and I see the exact same people smirking across the house now when the current opposition makes the same complaint.
Like the guarantee?
 

james5001

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
11,503
So many of them spent their careers on opposition benches, they know what is wrong and have no interest in fixing it.
As opposed to spending 10 years in government and not fundamentally changing much for the better?
 

Bishop Casey

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
617
James5001, you like many others out there seem to think that anybody who supports Fianna Fáil is openly in favour of Bertie Ahern and his cabinets over the 14 years in power be returned and that this is a given in every utterance we make. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am discussing something that happens in other parliaments and is about to happen for the first time in ours (as far as I know).

Fianna Fáil members know more than anybody the damage that a poor political system can cause not only to the country but to the body politic.
 

Plebian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
9,342
The OP reads like a press release from the Ministry Of Truth.
 

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
52,042
This should be the norm perhaps except for the budget. Let our elected representatives actually represent us - not just Party HQ.
 

Marcos the black

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
18,708
James5001, you like many others out there seem to think that anybody who supports Fianna Fáil is openly in favour of Bertie Ahern and his cabinets over the 14 years in power be returned and that this is a given in every utterance we make. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am discussing something that happens in other parliaments and is about to happen for the first time in ours (as far as I know).

Fianna Fáil members know more than anybody the damage that a poor political system can cause not only to the country but to the body politic.
Yeah james5001.. come on.. as if..
 

dancl2000

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
517
“When the whips are off, parliament has a new vitality” Peter Richards, Political historian,

Regardless of his motivation, Michael Martin has made a decision today that should become the Fianna Fáil position on all issues of conscience into the future. As we have seen in similar parliaments in the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand the parliament comes alive when the whip system is removed. Party leaders allowing members to vote on issues of conscience (e.g. gay marriage, gambling, pornography, divorce, sale of alcohol, voting age etc etc) will allow back benchers to re-define themselves as something other than funeral attending, pot hole fillers. Many back benchers will fear being lobbied and will fear having to make a decision that will upset some of their constituents but that is something that their counterparts have to deal with in other countries.

Enda Kenny & Eamonn Gilmore have both said that they will impose their will on all members of their political parties on the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Bill which has yet again demonstrated the cowardice of both men. If your position is so strong and your bill carries so much support then please stand up on the floor of the parliament and sell your position to the members of your and other parties. The sight of TD’s who are fundamentally opposed to this bill walking through to vote yes will yet again demonstrate that our parliament is a broken entity and behind our international colleagues.

People voted for change in the last election, they didn’t get it, they will vote for change again.
this is nonsense, we had two referendums asking specifically if we should rule out suicide can be grounds for abortion and we the irish people rejected that. The supreme court has interpreted the constitution to mean that the right to life of the unborn does not outweigh the right to life of the mother where the pregnancy is not viable.

therefore, the will of the people is clear, abortion must be allowed in these limited circumstances. that legislation has not been brought in line with the constitution since the 2002 and 1992 referendum is a disgrace on the spineless govts who have been in office since those date. the political parties who are now voting with their conscience' - the will of the people has been expressed unambiguously in two referendums and that they are willing to ignore the people shows how little regard those parties have for the electorate or the constitution

and finally, what a disgrace the catholic church showing it's disregard for democracy by pressuring politicians to ignore the referendum result and the supreme court in order to push it's doctrine. if it had any semblance of respectability left over from the abuse scandals of the last 3 decades then it has none now
 

Bishop Casey

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
617
this is nonsense, we had two referendums asking specifically if we should rule out suicide can be grounds for abortion and we the irish people rejected that. The supreme court has interpreted the constitution to mean that the right to life of the unborn does not outweigh the right to life of the mother where the pregnancy is not viable.

therefore, the will of the people is clear, abortion must be allowed in these limited circumstances. that legislation has not been brought in line with the constitution since the 2002 and 1992 referendum is a disgrace on the spineless govts who have been in office since those date. the political parties who are now voting with their conscience' - the will of the people has been expressed unambiguously in two referendums and that they are willing to ignore the people shows how little regard those parties have for the electorate or the constitution

and finally, what a disgrace the catholic church showing it's disregard for democracy by pressuring politicians to ignore the referendum result and the supreme court in order to push it's doctrine. if it had any semblance of respectability left over from the abuse scandals of the last 3 decades then it has none now
I wasn't referring to any of the issues you mentioned here. I was talking about political parties removing the whip system for issues of conscience.
 
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