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Contactless payment snafu


seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
BBC News - Contactless 'charging errors' at M&S

Contactless payment is coming to a wallet near you. You may have it already, but I haven't seen it in use in Ireland yet. In the UK M&S' contactless paypoints are accused of charging the wrong cards, cards in your bag, etc.

Its supposed to only work if you put the card near the till, but it seems it can accidentally find the card, and charge it (without entering a pin) at much greater distances.

If this is possible accidentally, it is surely possible for criminals to mug you contactlessly. No pin, no receipt, no record.

It reminds me of those RFID chips in passports which can allow tech-savvy criminals to steal identities of people as they walk past. Of course, if your identity is stolen, you may never know. It never appears in your bank balance - no statement will highlight it.

There is protection available. Several companies sell RF shielded wallets and handbags which prevent remote access to your cashcards.

Surely contactless payment is just a fundamentally bad idea.
 


Basildon Bob

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
1,010
Surely contactless payment is just a fundamentally bad idea.
It's a great idea.

Cash is king.
Not any more.

My ex-firm used to be involved in a system called Mondex which never took off in the UK but it did in other places and some countries such as Singapore have been paying using this method for about 20 years.

If you just want to buy a newspaper and some milk, surely its easier to wave a card or smartphone in front of a reader rather than digging around for some pennies. I think so. For buying stuff under £20, this is the way to go, above that a PIN will always be required.

As for M&S, I'd imagine the people operating the cash tills pressed the wrong button and the till went searching for a contactless payment even though that is not what the customers wanted.
 

seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
It's a great idea.

Not any more.

My ex-firm used to be involved in a system called Mondex which never took off in the UK but it did in other places and some countries such as Singapore have been paying using this method for about 20 years.

If you just want to buy a newspaper and some milk, surely its easier to wave a card or smartphone in front of a reader rather than digging around for some pennies. I think so. For buying stuff under £20, this is the way to go, above that a PIN will always be required.

As for M&S, I'd imagine the people operating the cash tills pressed the wrong button and the till went searching for a contactless payment even though that is not what the customers wanted.
I would have hoped the system was more securely designed so that operator error couldn't result in theft.

Are you saying all a thief needs is one of M&S's tills, and can sit in a cafe for a few hours and steal the money of every passerby?
 

Basildon Bob

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
1,010
The tills are "live". When a transaction needs to be done, the till makes a secure connection to the bank. Unless a thief works for a bank and knows the encryption used and the specfic signal to intercept, there is no way they can steal at will.
 

commonman

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
5,360
Wait till our government finds out that there is another way of taken money from the people.
 
M

MrFunkyZombaloo

Not any more.

My ex-firm used to be involved in a system called Mondex which never took off in the UK but it did in other places and some countries such as Singapore have been paying using this method for about 20 years.

If you just want to buy a newspaper and some milk, surely its easier to wave a card or smartphone in front of a reader rather than digging around for some pennies. I think so. For buying stuff under £20, this is the way to go, above that a PIN will always be required.

As for M&S, I'd imagine the people operating the cash tills pressed the wrong button and the till went searching for a contactless payment even though that is not what the customers wanted.
Why is it easier than rooting for some pennies?... You have to fill out forms and pay expenses/fees to get/keep a card. You must have established a good credit history if it's a credit card. Then there's identity theft and other privacy concerns. If not you'll have to buy a smartphone.

Or there's just pay with cash.
 

Nemesiscorporation

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
14,180
BBC News - Contactless 'charging errors' at M&S

Contactless payment is coming to a wallet near you. You may have it already, but I haven't seen it in use in Ireland yet. In the UK M&S' contactless paypoints are accused of charging the wrong cards, cards in your bag, etc.

Its supposed to only work if you put the card near the till, but it seems it can accidentally find the card, and charge it (without entering a pin) at much greater distances.

If this is possible accidentally, it is surely possible for criminals to mug you contactlessly. No pin, no receipt, no record.

It reminds me of those RFID chips in passports which can allow tech-savvy criminals to steal identities of people as they walk past. Of course, if your identity is stolen, you may never know. It never appears in your bank balance - no statement will highlight it.

There is protection available. Several companies sell RF shielded wallets and handbags which prevent remote access to your cashcards.

Surely contactless payment is just a fundamentally bad idea.
One of the supermarkets tried it in Sweden. They had to stop after a couple of hours. Identity theft had already occurred.
 

jtd

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
53
The tills are "live". When a transaction needs to be done, the till makes a secure connection to the bank. Unless a thief works for a bank and knows the encryption used and the specfic signal to intercept, there is no way they can steal at will.
As far as I know contactless transactions are an offline function i.e. it doesn't access you balance to see if you have funds in the account.
 

cobhguy

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
696
Why is it easier than rooting for some pennies?... You have to fill out forms and pay expenses/fees to get/keep a card. You must have established a good credit history if it's a credit card. Then there's identity theft and other privacy concerns. If not you'll have to buy a smartphone.

Or there's just pay with cash.
Not any more it is standard on all AIB debit cards now.
 

Franzoni

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
16,456
Ah...such a shame I closed my account with that particular establishment on 01.10.2008.
Laffin

Way ahead of you Mr FZ..i closed mine in 1998..........although it's possible i'm a bit older than you and had the benefit of seeing through the gimps and the the way they operated even back then.....

Cash is king and more and more people are starting to realise that...also the barter/trade system is becoming increasingly popular for some services between people......

Good to see you back BTW.....:)
 

stopdoingstuff

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
22,892
Cash is yer only man. All the moves to get rid of cash is lunacy- there is nothing more hackable than the sort of shyte that is being rolleed out these days. You can use a Pringles tube as an arial to access some wireless networks ffs. No, give me cash anyday. I know the banks and the governments don't like physical things that are harder to manipulate without it being noticed, but screw them. I want cash.

 

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