Cork Events Centre .. Enda turned One sod year ago .. the end .. as of tonight costs rise bigly

robut

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https://uccexpress.ie/additional-e10m-needed-to-save-cork-event-centre-project/

The Government could be asked to pay out another €10m in State funding to save the stalled Cork Event Centre project from collapsing. Over two years on from the Government’s €20m investment in the building of the proposed 6,000 seater venue on the old Beamish and Crawford site, Minister Simon Coveney has admitted that an additional €10 million will be required to prevent the project from collapse.
Tonight the city hall had a behind closed doors meet about this thorny subject of the Cork Event Centre. Here are two tweets that describe the result of that meet from Examiner reporter Eoin English - https://twitter.com/EoinBearla :

Cork event centre briefing told work could start in Sept - if govt coughs up €12m extra. Meeting has just finished ...

BAM executives left City Hall by a side door to avoid waiting media
Was on 9pm news RTE tonight, Pascale Sheehy said same. Was told BAM would talk to them after meet, but lads disappeared out back door ..

I cannot see this happening in the current climate or ever. Many in Cork think this is a bad idea anyway, particularly the location of this proposed centre right in a tight city centre where parking and access could be a nightmare.

Others have other thoughts like:

https://twitter.com/ownohmanny/status/833791612819996673 -

So BAM looking for 10m more for Cork conference centre. Bus Eireann might be lost for less.
OR

https://twitter.com/aoneillmeath/status/833790400095715328

worrying Bam who have contract for childrens hospital say cost for cork event centre has risen

My thoughts - Stop digging, bar Enda's one sod a year ago. Bury this project. As much as an event centre in Cork would be welcome I reckon not this way and not at this location. Maybe down the docks / quays opposite the train station ( this is an alt location proposed by the late Eoin O Callaghan ).

Coveney should now come out and stop this ..at least for now. I dont think the state should be involved in projects like this, should be a private venture surely? I reckon €30m could go elsewhere right now to better use??

Thoughts PIE'ers
 
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PBP voter

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No surprise. Tradesmen wages have shot up.
 

robut

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This is it so far .. as far as its got in a year .. well actually the ground is cleared at this stage but thats it .. outside of Enda's one sod a year ago :D

 

Cahal

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Who is really surprised with this, It happens time and again with every single project that a County or City Council think up. They run over time and budget constantly, In truth it's possibly the only consistency that you get from all the different councils. is there inability to do anything on time or in budget.
 

SeanieFitz

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Who is really surprised with this, It happens time and again with every single project that a County or City Council think up. They run over time and budget constantly, In truth it's possibly the only consistency that you get from all the different councils. is there inability to do anything on time or in budget.
that is somewhat disingenuous.

There is a very strict procurement process which all public bodies have to abide by, (personally I dislike it as it is very difficult and expensive for local, small/medium size businesses to tender for work and, generally speaking, projects go to the bigger, often foreign, companies). The contracts allow for negotiation, "unforseen" claims etc and this is where the expensive fun begins

BAM have a history of going well over budget for some reason but gets plenty of contracts. If memory serves me right they were the company involved in the Conor Lenihan/Kebab Dail faux pax

Kerry council keeps quiet on settlement over bypass costs overrun | Irish Examiner

State awards

Consortium led by BAM signs

Contractors

Extra
 

offalypat

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This is it so far .. as far as its got in a year .. well actually the ground is cleared at this stage but thats it .. outside of Enda's one sod a year ago :D

where is michael martin with all this going on
 

Roll_On

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Parking and access are hardly issues when the number of parking spaces provided is 0. Similar to newer office developments parking is either non existent or is very small so as to discourage car usage, as is standard planning practice in Dublin and Cork.
 

locke

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There's also two multi-storey car parks within a 5 minute walk (St Finbarr's and Grand Parade).

Plus if you're pitching something as a regeneration opportunity, building it for people who will jump in cars and head off won't benefit anyone.

I'm not convinced that we would be any better off if Owen O'Callaghan got the contract. He never built the event centre or hotel in Mahon Point that was part of the deal out there.

There are two things that need to be sorted out now though:-
- the contract itself needs to be looked at as it clearly wasn't fit for purpose
- if the additional money is provided to BAM, either the state or Cork City Council needs to become a shareholder. The money can't just be given for free.
 

robut

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Events Centre latest: Bigger, better, dearer, later!

BAM has confirmed that they are aiming for a September start for construction, with the project due to be open within 18 to 24 months.

However, this is dependent on additional funding from national government, with BAM now looking for as much as €32 million in total — up from the €20m already pledged.

BAM executives have said the total cost of the project has increased from €53m to €65 million.
Plans now include a more versatile centre, capable of handling major events, such as conferences and concerts, alongside much smaller, more intimate events.

Operators Live Nation are believed to favour a more versatile centre due to the relatively small size of the market in Cork. It is understood that catering for a wider spectrum of events would ensure the long-term viability of the development.

As such, the centre is being billed as the 3 Arena, Bord Gais Energy Theatre and the Convention Centre all rolled into one.
This time next year will we have a new Events Centre? OR BAM looking for more cash again I wonder?
 

robut

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There's also two multi-storey car parks within a 5 minute walk (St Finbarr's and Grand Parade).

Plus if you're pitching something as a regeneration opportunity, building it for people who will jump in cars and head off won't benefit anyone.

I'm not convinced that we would be any better off if Owen O'Callaghan got the contract. He never built the event centre or hotel in Mahon Point that was part of the deal out there.

There are two things that need to be sorted out now though:-
- the contract itself needs to be looked at as it clearly wasn't fit for purpose
- if the additional money is provided to BAM, either the state or Cork City Council needs to become a shareholder. The money can't just be given for free.
Its not IF the additional money is provided to BAM really? Because IF NOT then the project is dead in the water. Somehow, litening to various shows and peeps today BAM will get this cash, no strings I would say. Politically ( Via Coveney and Kennys sod turn a year ago ) they have gone too far not to do it. Its face saving regardless now ??

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/developer-of-planned-cork-centre-to-seek-extra-12m-in-public-funds-1.2983569?utm_content=sf-man

Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Simon Coveney indicated on Monday that he believed Minister for Public Expenditure Paschal Donohoe is sympathetic to Cork’s plight and approval should be forthcoming for the additional €12 million.
 
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Lumpy Talbot

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No
Standard operating procedure. Bid low and drive the price up when the customer is publicly committed.

If the people who got the contract are now saying that costs have increased by 60% since the contracts have been signed perhaps the contract should be looked at and voided with the tender for the next stage going out separately.

If the company concerned misread the costs by as much as 60% then serious thought should be given to whether the relationship with the company should continue.
 

Roll_On

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I heard BAM claimed that their costs increased because of the detailed design which will provide a completely flexible internal space. If BAM didn't adequately cost their bid, that should raise serious concerns about their competency. If it were me I would re tender and see if BAM drop their price or a cheaper bid is put in
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I heard BAM claimed that their costs increased because of the detailed design which will provide a completely flexible internal space. If BAM didn't adequately cost their bid, that should raise serious concerns about their competency. If it were me I would re tender and see if BAM drop their price or a cheaper bid is put in
What would they have been doing to bid when they didn't have a view of the detailed design in the first place? How could they have costed the bid in the first place?

Unless they are alleging that the client changed the requirements around the detailed design after the bid? It is a fairly notorious area of construction this with low bids to secure the contract and then fluff the client along later about costs for materiels having risen substantially.

Might be worth paying a few thousand to get some independent quantity surveyors/assessors in before any more millions are agreed to. If the project has to halt at the site clearance stage so be it.
 

GDPR

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I heard BAM claimed that their costs increased because of the detailed design which will provide a completely flexible internal space. If BAM didn't adequately cost their bid, that should raise serious concerns about their competency. If it were me I would re tender and see if BAM drop their price or a cheaper bid is put in
Tbh, this comes as no surprise and I'd like to see a change where a company has a history of this, that the projected be re-tendered and that company be excluded from the future tender. Cut out the messing.
 

Mushroom

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Tbh, this comes as no surprise and I'd like to see a change where a company has a history of this, that the projected be re-tendered and that company be excluded from the future tender. Cut out the messing.
It sounds nice, but the problem is that EU competition/tendering regulations make that kind of practical approach rather difficult, unfortunately.

You may recall that the planned flood defences for Bandon were delayed for a number of years and had to go for re-tender twice because some company took the OPW to court because they had been rejected at pre-qualifying stage so weren't invited to tender for the work. The only winners were the lads in the horsehair wigs.
 

GDPR

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It sounds nice, but the problem is that EU competition/tendering regulations make that kind of practical approach rather difficult, unfortunately.

You may recall that the planned flood defences for Bandon were delayed for a number of years and had to go for re-tender twice because some company took the OPW to court because they had been rejected at pre-qualifying stage so weren't invited to tender for the work.
Ah, that's an excellent clarification, and rather depressing.
 

max99

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This is it so far .. as far as its got in a year .. well actually the ground is cleared at this stage but thats it .. outside of Enda's one sod a year ago :D

It's The Donald Trump wall they should be building down there! keep all those rebels behind it..
 
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robut

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Standard operating procedure. Bid low and drive the price up when the customer is publicly committed.

If the people who got the contract are now saying that costs have increased by 60% since the contracts have been signed perhaps the contract should be looked at and voided with the tender for the next stage going out separately.

If the company concerned misread the costs by as much as 60% then serious thought should be given to whether the relationship with the company should continue.
Keep in mind it is the Cork City corporation that are part of this deal. They and the government .. YOU the taxpayer will be paying quiet a few millions into this. Its the gov being asked for the further €12m along with what they put up already.

This IS NOT a wholly private funded project .. So you guys as taxpayers all have a vested interest :D
 


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