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Cork - Protestants and Non-Religious 2006 (maps)


Casualbets

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Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,638
I was asked to do these maps... can anyone tell me whether the protestant population in South-West Cork is largely indigenous or is it as the result of immigration?

Colour Scheme :

<5% Lt Blue
5-10% Dark Blue
10-15% Green
15-20% Dark Red
>20% Lt Red



PROTESTANTS & OTHER NON-CATHOLICS





NON-RELIGIOUS

 

kerrynorth

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Oct 5, 2005
Messages
1,525
The Bandon area was a historical retirement area for British Naval Officers prior to Independence so there is a historically high Protestant population in West Cork. In more recent decades you had a lot of British, Germans and Dutch came to live in West Cork when the place was really cheap.
 
D

Duth Ealla

interesting to see that the group described as non-religious also tends towards the west.
 

locke

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I think one of the big bright red spots on the non-religious map is Coolmountain, which has a large new age commune in it.

I think the Protestant population needs to be divided into two group. In the Clonakilty-Bandon-Dunmanway triangle there is are a large number of native Protestants dating back to the Plantation of Munster. Many, if not most of these would be involved in farming. The further west concentration is more likely to be more recent immigrants from the UK, Germany and the Netherlands.

I have no good explanation of the area that looks like it's just to the south of Drimoleague. I was never even aware that there were significant numbers of Protestants in the area.
 

Casualbets

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Jun 7, 2004
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1,638
I think one of the big bright red spots on the non-religious map is Coolmountain, which has a large new age commune in it.

I think the Protestant population needs to be divided into two group. In the Clonakilty-Bandon-Dunmanway triangle there is are a large number of native Protestants dating back to the Plantation of Munster. Many, if not most of these would be involved in farming. The further west concentration is more likely to be more recent immigrants from the UK, Germany and the Netherlands.

I have no good explanation of the area that looks like it's just to the south of Drimoleague. I was never even aware that there were significant numbers of Protestants in the area.

Interesting, good analysis tho I'd doubt they'd date back as far as plantation times per se as Nine Years War pretty much obliterated the plantation (as best I can remember), I would have thought that it's more likely the Protestants settled there post-1650 and then again post-1690... but I could well be wrong...

As regards the new age thing, there seems to be a similar situation in mid-leitrim, where there are odd pockets of concentrated godlessness...
 

macdarawhitfield

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Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
193
I think one of the big bright red spots on the non-religious map is Coolmountain, which has a large new age commune in it.

I think the Protestant population needs to be divided into two group. In the Clonakilty-Bandon-Dunmanway triangle there is are a large number of native Protestants dating back to the Plantation of Munster. Many, if not most of these would be involved in farming. The further west concentration is more likely to be more recent immigrants from the UK, Germany and the Netherlands.

I have no good explanation of the area that looks like it's just to the south of Drimoleague. I was never even aware that there were significant numbers of Protestants in the area.
Spot on ,I'd say.Bandon is the only town in Munster that ever had a Protestant majority and that was in the 1600s.This is a very old community and the same names seem to recur over time - though some have 'gone over'.Fairly good land too along the river.The land further west around Schull ,Bantry and Beara in general is poor farmland ,by contrast.Get an 02 phone book and lok up names beginning with 'V'.Now read across to the addresses;there's your answer - but these guys are not farmers.Or keen churchgoers for that matter.
 
D

Duth Ealla

vaguely remember one source saying that in the 19th century there was very significant movement into Ireland from the "rest" of the uk. Recall the point was connected with the movement of people back after the anglo-irish war. Maybe thats the time period where these numbers originate.

People like the Dutch would tend to describe themselves as a-religious. I think there are more describing themselves as catholic in the Netherlands than protestant. The same may hold true for the Germans but I am not sure. i think there is a case to say dutch folks would contribute to the non-religious spikes more than they do to protestant areas.

Can I say that these are interesting maps that make you think about, in my case, your home county. Fair play.
 

locke

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May 2, 2007
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Actually, I'd love to be able to do a comparison with 100 years ago. It would answer how much of the population is native protestant and how many are immigrant.

I'd also like to see how much of a decline there's been in North Cork. It's an area that has produced a few well-known Protestants - William Trevor and Elizabeth Bowen for example - and I wonder if there was once a much larger community there.

But I don't think the CSO produce SAPS for any previous censuses, never mind that long ago.
 

Casualbets

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Jun 7, 2004
Messages
1,638
Actually, I'd love to be able to do a comparison with 100 years ago. It would answer how much of the population is native protestant and how many are immigrant.

I'd also like to see how much of a decline there's been in North Cork. It's an area that has produced a few well-known Protestants - William Trevor and Elizabeth Bowen for example - and I wonder if there was once a much larger community there.

But I don't think the CSO produce SAPS for any previous censuses, never mind that long ago.
Find me one, and I'll do it...
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
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Spot on ,I'd say.Bandon is the only town in Munster that ever had a Protestant majority and that was in the 1600s.This is a very old community and the same names seem to recur over time - though some have 'gone over'.Fairly good land too along the river.The land further west around Schull ,Bantry and Beara in general is poor farmland ,by contrast.Get an 02 phone book and lok up names beginning with 'V'.Now read across to the addresses;there's your answer - but these guys are not farmers.Or keen churchgoers for that matter.
Aye, even the pigs are black in Bandon...

But I must quibble. Surely Baltimore had a Prod majority when the Barbary pirates came to take them away?...
 
D

Duth Ealla

Actually, I'd love to be able to do a comparison with 100 years ago. It would answer how much of the population is native protestant and how many are immigrant.

I'd also like to see how much of a decline there's been in North Cork. It's an area that has produced a few well-known Protestants - William Trevor and Elizabeth Bowen for example - and I wonder if there was once a much larger community there.

But I don't think the CSO produce SAPS for any previous censuses, never mind that long ago.
Didn't know Elizabeth Bowen was Irish. Just strikes me that Bowen is a Welsh name and I wonder is Trevor a Cornish name.

I guess one spike in North Cork is Fermoy which was traditionally a garrison town so that might tie in or is it mallo So i looked up a list of Cork British army towns out of curiosity and there would seem to be little historical correlation although many seemed small.

The following were the permanent barracks in county Cork:

Ballincollig: This was the principal artillery depot for the county. The barracks had accommodation for 18 officers and 242 men, also included was a hospital, church and school. There were facilities for eight field batteries but normally only one (95 men and 44 horses) was stationed there. There was also a privately owned gunpowder works (which employed 200 people and produced 16,000 barrels of gunpowder per year) and the principal police training facility for the province of Munster.

Buttevant Barracks covering 23 acres.

Charles Fort. see Kinsale

Clonakilty: Infantry Barracks with accommodation for four officers and 68 men.

Fermoy: By the 1830s this was the principal military depot for the county. In 1791 Mr. John Anderson purchased two thirds of the manor and when, in 1797, the army was looking to establish a new and permanent base Anderson gifted them the land as an inducement to locate in Fermoy. Anderson and the whole town received considerable economic benefit from that gift. In 1806 the first permanent barracks, the East Barracks, were built. They were located on 16½ acres of land and provided accommodation for 112 officers and 1478 men of infantry, and 24 officers, 120 men, and 112 horses of cavalry. A general military hospital of 130 beds was also built. In 1809 the smaller West Barracks were built which also included a 42 bed hospital. When both barracks were complete there was accommodation for 14 field officers, 169 officers, 2816 men, and 152 horses. The town of Fermoy expanded around these facilities and retained its British military facilities until 1922.

Kinsale: Charles Fort, on the east side of Kinsale Harbour, was a coast defence fort with accommodation for 16 officers and 332 men.

Mallow: Prior to the construction of the barracks in Fermoy this was the principal military depot for the county but after 1806 the size of the military establishment was reduced. By the 1830s there was an infantry barracks with accommodation for seven officers and 103 men.

Millstreet: Infantry Barracks with accommodation for six officers and 100 men.
Mitchelstown: Infantry barracks with accommodation for three officers and 72 men.
Skibbereen: A small infantry barracks.
Youghal: Infantry barracks with accommodation for six officers and 180 men.

Cork Harbour: This area had great strategic importance to the British military, during the various wars against the French it had become a major supply port for both the navy and army. The principal town in the area was Cove (renamed Queenstown in 1849 and Cobh in 1922) as recently as 1786 Cove was a small fishing village but following the French revolution and the subsequent wars the town grew rapidly in order to support the greatly increased military presence.

The following were all located in and around Cork Harbour;
Camden Fort: Fortification on the west side of the harbour entrance
Carlisle Fort: Fortification on the east side of the harbour entrance.
Haulbowline (or Haulbowling) Island: Located only a ½ mile from the centre of Cove, It had been occupied by the military for many years and was fortified in 1602. A permanent garrison was established there in the 1690 but in 1806, when it was decided to shift the army to Spike Island, it was appropriated to the Admiralty and Ordnance. On the eastern half of the island the Admiralty established the only naval arsenal in Ireland (large enough to supply the entire navy for one year). The west of the island was used as an ordnance depot which was closely associated with Rocky Island. In 1869 Haulbowline was upgraded to a naval dockyard (a major industrial facility for the repair and maintenance of ships) and continued to be used as such by the Irish government after 1922. At its peak in 1918 it employed over 1000 shipyard workers.

Spike Island: In 1811 the then sparsely inhabited island was selected as the site for the ordnance depot for southern Ireland. A large artillery barracks was constructed in the centre of the island which was equipped ‘bomb proof’ accommodation and a military hospital. These barracks were often used by troops about to embark for overseas service. In later years a prison was also established there.

Rocky Island: A small island near Haulbowline, honeycombed with tunnels and used as a massive gunpowder magazine (25,000 barrels), it was designed to supply the whole of Ireland and an army detachment of one officer and 30 men was assigned to operate it.

Source:
Samuel Lewis, Topographical Dictionary of Ireland (London: 1837. Reprinted; Baltimore:​
 

locke

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Elizabeth Bowen was from somewhere around Doneraile/Kildorrery. Although, her family left when she was a child. She then moved back after she inherited the family home when she was in her 40s or 50s.

William Trevor was from Mitchelstown.

They had very different backgrounds though as Bowen was from the land-owning classes, while Trevor's father was just a bank clerk.

As regards the SAPS, it seems they are available from the CSO as far back as 1981, but you have to request every area you want to see. It's a bit like a "we'd rather you didn't ask, but if you must..."
 

peader odonnell

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Jul 12, 2007
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Interesting, good analysis tho I'd doubt they'd date back as far as plantation times per se as Nine Years War pretty much obliterated the plantation (as best I can remember), I would have thought that it's more likely the Protestants settled there post-1650 and then again post-1690... but I could well be wrong...

As regards the new age thing, there seems to be a similar situation in mid-leitrim, where there are odd pockets of concentrated godlessness...
There has been a Protestant population in West Cork since Plantation times.
 

Trefor1.1

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Oct 25, 2008
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interesting to see that the group described as non-religious also tends towards the west.
Both are probably markers for areas with high immigration figures.
 

jfk2008

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Sep 10, 2008
Messages
157
Thanks for that. It's very interesting to see that very old settlement patterns are still evident today.

I think the distribution of the Protestant population in West Cork reflects several historical factors:

the Plantation of Munster

post-Cromwellian settlement

post-Williamite settlement

probable concentration near larger towns/villages in the 19th century

military garrisons

further concentration in the 1920s (possibly due to fear of attacks)

immigration of Dutch, Germans, British etc. from the 1970s onwards

I'm looking forward to seeing the results for the whole country: I have a feeling that the Plantation settlement patterns will probably still form the basis of Protestant settlement across Ireland despite disruptions to these patterns over the centuries.

Very old historical population settlement patterns are still evident in Ireland today from earlier periods.

For example, look at the distribution of the Norman surname, Power.

This name is still concentrated in the south-east, the first area of Ireland to be affected by significant Norman settlement.

A good example from Co. Cork is the Cogans of Carrigaline: they're still a prominent family in the town over 800 years after their arrival.
 

FrankSpeaks

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What is the chance of getting a Kerry map?
 
D

Duth Ealla

jfk2008 - Very old historical population settlement patterns are still evident in Ireland today from earlier periods.


True and an even better example would be the native gaelic names where surnames are still concentrated in the former clan territories.
 

Liza G

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Nov 18, 2008
Messages
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From the map the most heavily populated Protestant areas seem to be around Bandon ( 'where the pigs are Protestant' ) and the Mizen peninsula. Much of the Protestant population on the Mizen are direct descendants of those who ' took the soup ' during the Famine and about whom Eoghan Harris based his play ' The Rector of Kilcoe'.
 
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