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Cork’s Bloody Secret (RTE 5th Oct)

Lao-Tse

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Dec 26, 2008
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162
War of Independence Documentary

RTE are showing a documentary on the Irish War of Independence
tomorrow,about the Killings in Dunmanway,at 7.00,
called "CSI:Cork's Bloody Secret".

The title sounds rather sensationalist. I hope this is a serious
documentary and not tabloid TV. :(

<Mod> This thread has been merged with "War of Independence Documentary". </Mod>
 
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mothball

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Of course, it's tabloid tv. This is RTE we're talking about. The same people who showed us that rubbish about Lynch invading the north.
How do you think they are going to depict the shooting of informers?
 

Lao-Tse

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BullLee

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Eagerly awaiting the inevitable Aubane anti-prod backlash on P.ie. Here's how it will go: The prods that were murdered were all informers. Probably to a man. Barring that they were undoubtedly all engaged in proslytising. A crime which clearly justifies having your teeth shot out the back of your head in front of your family. Needless to say if these predictable but flimsy arguments fail, some minor detail will be picked over and dissected to detract from the truth.

No doubt some Aubanite will post a lengthy dissertation here about how many incisors versus molars were blown out the back of the head, and that these dental inconsistancies are clear evidence that southern prods dont exist at all and they are in fact a fictional creation of revisionists.

Come on Aubane, dont disappoint me.
 

Cogadh

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A name like CSI: Cork's Bloody Secret doesn't bode well for it being any good. I suspect it will be the usual myopic nonsense judging by Harris's deranged rant today.
 

Anamnua

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Sep 8, 2006
Messages
316
Oh no not again. I've a horrible feeling that we are in for another Coolacrease-style, Harrisistically propagandist, hatchet job.
Watch out for the following tactics as the thread evolves:
Lazy use of the term 'Aubanite' as a catch-all epithet for those who dare question the great chameleon of Seanad Eireann (has already happened) - even for those who know nothing about, and generally have little in common with, the AHS.
Use of emotional blackmail:
'Anyone who doesn't agree with this documentary's central contention is an apologist for sectarian slaughter/pogrom denialist/crypto Provo etc, etc.
When oh when is our state broadcaster, not to mention the media in general, finally going to emerge from the dark, stupefying cloud of Harrisism?
 
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st333ve

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They shouldnt be making a documentary on my independence until I have it.

Expect pure trash tv from RTE.
 

Schomberg

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I'm sooo happy RTE are airing this programme!

Cork’s Bloody Secret” will be transmitted on Monday 5th October 2009 on RTE 1 at 7.30pm.
[See also Wikipedia's article on the Dunmanway massacre and the disputes on wording such as 'informer'.] It deals with the killing of 13 West Cork protestants in April 1922 in the Bandon Valley, Clonakilty and Dunmanway.

In Cork’s Bloody Secret”, descendents of some of the protestant victims return to the scene of the murders. Hazel Baylor is a grand-niece of John Albert Chinnery who was killed at his farm on 28th April 1922. A number of men called to his house at night and asked him to harness a horse to a cart. While he was doing this, they shot and killed him. His grand-niece Hazel Baylor (who speaks lovely Irish) brings her daughter Jennifer to the farm to tell her the story as her own mother had told it to her many years before.



Then she brings Jennifer to a lonely churchyard to show her the grave of “Uncle Bertie” as she calls him (Bertie being the diminutive of his middle name Albert). She speculates on whether he was killed simply because he was a protestant and wishes she had asked her mother for more details while she was alive. As Hazel says in her interview: “Tháinig tost mór agus tá an tost sin fós ann inniu”. She thinks the men who killed her grand-uncle must have known him, “ach níor chuala mé ainm riamh”.



Charles Duff is a lecturer in theatre studies in Norte Dame University. He is based in their London campus. He is an expert in London’s West End drama tradition of the 1950s and has written a book on the subject called “The Lost Summer: The Heyday of the West End Theatre”. He has also worked as an actor and theatre director (he has directed Shakespeare’s Hamlet for example), and he was involved in the New Globe Theatre in London.



He is a grandson of David Gray, the chemist who was shot dead in the doorway of his home in Dunmanway on 27th April 1922. Charles Duff is the son of David Gray’s daughter who was upstairs in bed while her father was being shot. She was only 2-years-old at the time. Because Charles was born out of wedlock, he was temporarily adopted by a Church of Ireland Mission couple in London and then permanently adopted by an aristocratic couple in Wales.



Some years ago, he became interested in his Irish birth-origins and got in touch with some of West Cork’s local historians. In our programme, he visits Dunmanway for the first time ever while local historian Tommy Collins shows him the Chemist Shop where David Gray worked, the house where he was shot and the grave where he is buried. Charles Duff places a floral wreath upon the grave of his grandfather and reflects upon the events.



The programme also features a dialogue between two local historians, one a protestant and the other a catholic. They are Donald Woods and Colum Cronin. Donald was raised in the area but lives in England now while Colum is still living in West Cork. The two men correspond on a regular basis on historical matters relating to Cork, but only recently have they felt able to discuss the 1922 atrocities with each other. They talk about this in the programme. Later, they visit the grave of John Buttimer and tell the story of his murder along with that of his servant boy Jimmy Greenfield.



The programme also features Professor John A Murphy and Eoghan Harris who give us the social, political and historical background to the 1922 events which sets the specific stories of the other participants in their context.



The programme features dramatic reconstructions of the killings of the following people: Acting Commandant Michael O’Neill (IRA), Thomas Hornibrook, Samuel Hornibrook, Captain Herbert Woods, John “Bertie” Chinnery, David Gray, John Buttimer, Jimmy Greenfield. It also includes sequences which suggest some of the other murders in a more general way. These sequences were shot using 16 actors.



The people in this programme are speaking about these events publicly for the first time, so I think the programme is groundbreaking from that perspective. Hopefully, it will lead to further discussion of the issues and other issues in our complex history.
 

Nem

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This is in their 'CSI" series. Interesting to see John A. Murphy involved, not too sure about Harris. I'd like to emphasise that this isn't really a 'history' programme but more a 'true crime' type of series. But it is certainly an interesting angle to take and thanks for posting it.
 

Ah Well

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I'm sooo happy RTE are airing this programme!

Cork’s Bloody Secret” will be transmitted on Monday 5th October 2009 on RTE 1 at 7.30pm.
[See also Wikipedia's article on the Dunmanway massacre and the disputes on wording such as 'informer'.] It deals with the killing of 13 West Cork protestants in April 1922 in the Bandon Valley, Clonakilty and Dunmanway.

In Cork’s Bloody Secret”, descendents of some of the protestant victims return to the scene of the murders. Hazel Baylor is a grand-niece of John Albert Chinnery who was killed at his farm on 28th April 1922. A number of men called to his house at night and asked him to harness a horse to a cart. While he was doing this, they shot and killed him. His grand-niece Hazel Baylor (who speaks lovely Irish) brings her daughter Jennifer to the farm to tell her the story as her own mother had told it to her many years before.



Then she brings Jennifer to a lonely churchyard to show her the grave of “Uncle Bertie” as she calls him (Bertie being the diminutive of his middle name Albert). She speculates on whether he was killed simply because he was a protestant and wishes she had asked her mother for more details while she was alive. As Hazel says in her interview: “Tháinig tost mór agus tá an tost sin fós ann inniu”. She thinks the men who killed her grand-uncle must have known him, “ach níor chuala mé ainm riamh”.



Charles Duff is a lecturer in theatre studies in Norte Dame University. He is based in their London campus. He is an expert in London’s West End drama tradition of the 1950s and has written a book on the subject called “The Lost Summer: The Heyday of the West End Theatre”. He has also worked as an actor and theatre director (he has directed Shakespeare’s Hamlet for example), and he was involved in the New Globe Theatre in London.



He is a grandson of David Gray, the chemist who was shot dead in the doorway of his home in Dunmanway on 27th April 1922. Charles Duff is the son of David Gray’s daughter who was upstairs in bed while her father was being shot. She was only 2-years-old at the time. Because Charles was born out of wedlock, he was temporarily adopted by a Church of Ireland Mission couple in London and then permanently adopted by an aristocratic couple in Wales.



Some years ago, he became interested in his Irish birth-origins and got in touch with some of West Cork’s local historians. In our programme, he visits Dunmanway for the first time ever while local historian Tommy Collins shows him the Chemist Shop where David Gray worked, the house where he was shot and the grave where he is buried. Charles Duff places a floral wreath upon the grave of his grandfather and reflects upon the events.



The programme also features a dialogue between two local historians, one a protestant and the other a catholic. They are Donald Woods and Colum Cronin. Donald was raised in the area but lives in England now while Colum is still living in West Cork. The two men correspond on a regular basis on historical matters relating to Cork, but only recently have they felt able to discuss the 1922 atrocities with each other. They talk about this in the programme. Later, they visit the grave of John Buttimer and tell the story of his murder along with that of his servant boy Jimmy Greenfield.



The programme also features Professor John A Murphy and Eoghan Harris who give us the social, political and historical background to the 1922 events which sets the specific stories of the other participants in their context.



The programme features dramatic reconstructions of the killings of the following people: Acting Commandant Michael O’Neill (IRA), Thomas Hornibrook, Samuel Hornibrook, Captain Herbert Woods, John “Bertie” Chinnery, David Gray, John Buttimer, Jimmy Greenfield. It also includes sequences which suggest some of the other murders in a more general way. These sequences were shot using 16 actors.



The people in this programme are speaking about these events publicly for the first time, so I think the programme is groundbreaking from that perspective. Hopefully, it will lead to further discussion of the issues and other issues in our complex history.
Tks for the heads up on this!

Shall certainly watch it, being past events which occurred locally
 

BullLee

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Should be powerful. One of the ten was a relative of mine so I can categorically refute the inevitable slurs of 'informer' that will presently rain down on this thread (see Niall Meehan's poisonous personal character assassinations on the Dunmanway entry in Wikipedia).

Incidentally the cyber-provo's that Eoghan Harris nailed in his column have already pre-empted the documentary by reducing the Wikipedia entry on the Dunmanway massacre into nothing more than provo propaganda, full of lies, misrepresentation and a liberal perversion of history.

These people are fascists and make me wonder if there is a direct link between Aubane, Niall Meehan (who both jump at any chance to disredit crimes against prods), and these cyber-fascists who pervert the media so obsessively, often quoting Meehan directly. The Pearsons lost two sons. They also had their good name dragged through the mud be these reptiles, the same was done with the Protestant orphanage in Galway, and the same is being done to the families of the men who were butchered in Cork.

These parasites are the antithesis of true Wolfe-Tone republicanism and are a force that seeks to divide Protestant from Catholic and maintain partition in the country. By partition I refer to the real partition between people, not an imaginary line on a map. Any real republican should put these snakes out into the cold where they belong and try to understand what happened during these years when so many innocent prods were murdered. That's the way you unite a country.
 

Monkey-Magic

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Messages
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The IRA has always had bigotted sectarians amongst it's membership from the start. Several leading IRA men tried to address this problem including Goulding and Garland in the 60s but unfortunately some mindless secatarian murdering bastards would not accept this and went on to form their own organisation, the provisionals. The provos were nothing but sewer rats who set back class unity in Ireland by decades
 

turdsl

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It will solve no problem bringing this up at this time, who would know for certain who was a spy or not over 80 years ago,spying was nnever an acceptable culture in this country,You just have to read some history on Michael Collins to understand that, look at the murder of Noel Lemass for no reason and he was a catholic and the war was over
 

Glennshane

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Should be powerful. One of the ten was a relative of mine so I can categorically refute the inevitable slurs of 'informer' that will presently rain down on this thread (see Niall Meehan's poisonous personal character assassinations on the Dunmanway entry in Wikipedia).

Incidentally the cyber-provo's that Eoghan Harris nailed in his column have already pre-empted the documentary by reducing the Wikipedia entry on the Dunmanway massacre into nothing more than provo propaganda, full of lies, misrepresentation and a liberal perversion of history.

These people are fascists and make me wonder if there is a direct link between Aubane, Niall Meehan (who both jump at any chance to disredit crimes against prods), and these cyber-fascists who pervert the media so obsessively, often quoting Meehan directly. The Pearsons lost two sons. They also had their good name dragged through the mud be these reptiles, the same was done with the Protestant orphanage in Galway, and the same is being done to the families of the men who were butchered in Cork.

These parasites are the antithesis of true Wolfe-Tone republicanism and are a force that seeks to divide Protestant from Catholic and maintain partition in the country. By partition I refer to the real partition between people, not an imaginary line on a map. Any real republican should put these snakes out into the cold where they belong and try to understand what happened during these years when so many innocent prods were murdered. That's the way you unite a country.
And in Cork!!!!! Dare one hope that the victims of Prod tyranny in Northern Ireland will no longer have to endure sermons on sectarianism from ever so liberal, pluaralist Staters?

What could be wrong with being the antithesis of Wolfe-Tone republicianism? Tone was an anti-Catholic bigot who wanted an independent Ireland ruled by the Prod settler minority - just like Rhodesia. Tone was Ireland's equivalent of Ian Smith.

When will RTE show a documentary about the Weaver Street atrocity?
 

Gabha Óir

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I wonder will Sam Maguire, that famous Protestant from Dunmanway come in for a mention.

Here's what Harristotle said about him back in 2003. Mind you he might have changed his opinion since then but I think he'll stay consistent on this one

" Along with Michael Collins and Tom Barry, Sam Maguire is the latest recruit to the West Cork republican trinity, which, in turn, is part of a lucrative tourist trail. One part of me approves and says "about time". Another part of me feels these tourist trails simplify and perpetuate the myths of nationalist history. And a small, hopeful part ofme puts its trust in a new generation of local historians.

As I sat in the car contemplating the Sam Maguire Plaza, I wondered what he, a Protestant who had thrown in his lot with the nationalist cause, felt about the campaign of burning and bullying carried out by Tom Barry's men against Maguire's neighbours, the ordinary Protestant farmers who let theirloyalism show? "

Sam Maguire and the Cork pogroms - Analysis, Opinion - Independent.ie

Oh , Sam , why did you do it? And go and mess up a flawed agenda against Daddy?
 

Glennshane

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The IRA has always had bigotted sectarians amongst it's membership from the start. Several leading IRA men tried to address this problem including Goulding and Garland in the 60s but unfortunately some mindless secatarian murdering bastards would not accept this and went on to form their own organisation, the provisionals. The provos were nothing but sewer rats who set back class unity in Ireland by decades
Garland and Goulding were a pair of Jackeens who never had to endure Prod tyranny. Sermons against sectarianism tend to be highly provocative when delivered by people from such a background.
 


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