Coronavirus - how should the majority respond to the vaccine refuseniks when one becomes available

raetsel

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Gosh here you're claiming people are out of touch with reality yet you're vouching for the total safety of something that as of now doesn't even exist.
I'm not vouching for anything. I'm placing my trust in science, and relying on the ethical standards of western medicine.
 


raetsel

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Who are you to assert that I am carrying a potentially fatal infection at all times?
If you do not get vaccinated then you will run a much higher risk of becoming infected. I believe I should have the right to keep you away from me. People who won't get vaccinated are social menaces as far as I'm concerned.
 

The OD

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I spelled it out for you the VAERS database. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)

You need to go in and tick the various boxes and search the database. These are deaths from all vaccines.
It showed last year 446 died in 2018 but if VAERS only represents 1% of the actual numbers, that means 44,600 people may have died from vaccination in 2018.
Right, so you are the only one has made this leap which means that its not fact, its your perception so essentially, its bullsh*t.

No surprise there.
 

Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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Who are you to assert that I am carrying a potentially fatal infection at all times?
Oh, I see a Diphtheria thingamajig on my thumb. Does u want it, My Precious? I've been vaccinated so I don't need it.
 
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reg11

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General question, and regardless of Emily's choices, do people know if this is going to be the case all summer?

My mother is desperate for us to come home in August, but it's not clear to me what the situation will be then for travelling.

Thing is, if we went via England, we'd be increasing the risk of catching it somewhere along the way and bringing it into Ireland, since we'd be coming from somewhere with very little circulating virus - but travelling through England has to push that risk right up.

So I thought going via the Republic would be less risky for all - but obviously if it means a 2 week quarantine then that's that out. And my mother's at an age now where saying "sure we'll see you at Christmas" is not that easy an option.
I say come home and visit your mother. It's most likely you will quarantine yourself for x days before you travel. If you are moving from one area with a similar IR to here and back again, I can't see the problem. It's likely you'll quarantine yourself when you return. So between 2 quarantines at start and at the end, in addition to cutting down as much possible personal contacts in transit with the usual precautions, then in total you're exposure to risk may only be marginally greater, than if you had gone about your usual business for that period of time in your place of residence.

You don't know about next Xmas and the rules are a blunt instrument. We all have limited time so we shouldn't give into fear or control freaks.
 

reg11

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I don’t like the feeling of terror, It was all consuming. Himself went ahead, said he had to keep going. Which was good, we discussed, he would have made me worse, so he was entirely correct. I must have been ashen, from the remarks oncommers made, it’s just my fear came back, not able to deal with the drops. Which is why the Frenchman selling white truffles in New York was such a kind gesture, actually offering me his hand, I found out later my youngest had nearly slipped at the same point. The kids, like mountain goats had gone way ahead.
It seems you might have hit on the antidote to all this propagated fear surrounding covid. Go to a place where people court danger and maybe indulge a bit. I don't think some people appreciate how all this fear is negatively affecting some people, almost to the point of being driven crazy.

As a matter of interest, are you finding your trip helpful? Has your perspective changed to hopefully a more positive one?
 

Splodge

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It seems you might have hit on the antidote to all this propagated fear surrounding covid. Go to a place where people court danger and maybe indulge a bit. I don't think some people appreciate how all this fear is negatively affecting some people, almost to the point of being driven crazy.

As a matter of interest, are you finding your trip helpful? Has your perspective changed to hopefully a more positive one?
There’s nothing to be fearful about Covid. It’s all a hoax from the NWO and Bill Gates wants to inject you with his nanotechnology.
 

The OD

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Who are you to assert that I am carrying a potentially fatal infection at all times?
While it might be argued that Darwinism might lead some individuals to make choices that eventually remove them from the gene pool, I'd not consider that to be a fatal infection?
 

The OD

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There’s nothing to be fearful about Covid. It’s all a hoax from the NWO and Bill Gates wants to inject you with his nanotechnology.
I would welcome them but if Bill Gates is involved I'm not sure I'd appreciate having to shut myself down several times a day for 'critical updates'.

FFS...... 😑
 
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Barroso

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I have randomised studies. And I can tell you that 446 people have been listed as having died from vaccine reactions in 2018 in the US.

61,000 in 2018 were shown to have had adverse reactions enough that Doctors reported them to the VAERS database.

Funny thing about the VAERS database, a Harvard Study costing $1,000,000 concluded that VAERS was picking up just 1% of cases.

So in the USA alone there was potentially 44,600 people died as a result of vaccination in 2018.
Link to the study, please.
 

alaimacerc

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Funny thing about the VAERS database, a Harvard Study costing $1,000,000 concluded that VAERS was picking up just 1% of cases.
Would this happen to be a project called Electronic Support for Public Health–Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System? Which was run by Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, Inc. As distinct from -- say! -- Harvard University.

So in the USA alone there was potentially 44,600 people died as a result of vaccination in 2018.
"Potentially." Me arse. 1.6% of all US deaths. Were you born yesterday, or just under the optimistic misapprehension that the rest of us were?
 

alaimacerc

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I’m not trying to be difficult, but could you link to the ‘law’.
As far as I’m aware the form, is hse advisory, not law. As is the advice not to leave Ireland.
It's the law. Statutory Instrument No. 181/2020 - Health Act 1947 (Section 31A – Temporary Requirements) (Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form) Regulations 2020

I’m specifically asking this as older people in Ireland were led to believe it was the ‘law’ to stay at home. But that was never the law.
They were perhaps 'led to believe' this as that advice was often referred to in the same breath as the lockdown regulations. Which were -- guess what! -- also 'the law'. Here's a job lot for some light reading.
 

Mrs. Crotta Cliach

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Would this happen to be a project called Electronic Support for Public Health–Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System? Which was run by Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, Inc. As distinct from -- say! -- Harvard University.


"Potentially." Me arse. 1.6% of all US deaths. Were you born yesterday, or just under the optimistic misapprehension that the rest of us were?
No wonder he didn't want to give the link.
 

alaimacerc

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It's entirely credible that [...]
Oh. here we go.

Always a good sign when someone starts making flat assertions about the credibility of their own claims. Before they've even made them.

a vaccine for covid could successfully do as is claimed, I.e. prevent one from contracting the disease but as a consequence cause one to suffer a post Covid illness, just like for those who actually contract the covid infection/illness through natural means.
No. You can get -- for example -- lung damage from covid-19, and suffer longer-lasting effects from recovering from that. That's caused by the disease, not by antibodies. Your scenario would only be plausible if there were evidence for auto-immune syndromes post-covid-19, or from vaccines that were at all comparable.

Due to the newness of the disease its full consequences in the post phase is only now being explored and won't be entirely be known perhaps for many years. Into all of that uncertainty how on earth could one vouch for the integrity of a vaccine? I don't believe it's possible.
There's a total gish gallop here. You've just gone straight from equating known medium-term effects of infection -- necessarily on a timescale of months, at most -- with completely hypothetical side-effects of a vaccine... to total speculation about much longer-term effects. Which of course you can do indefinitely. "This vaccine has only been extensively clinically trialled for twenty years! We know nothing -- nothing I say! -- about its effects on people twenty-one years after administration!"

Which is of course exactly why they're trialled before they're fully deployed. Indeed, there are whole series of trials, conducted in 3-4 distinct phases. Likely best not to get your information on vaccine timelines from (for example) gameshow hosts turned heads of government that believe they have 'natural ability' in science.
 

alaimacerc

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I have randomised studies. And I can tell you that 446 people have been listed as having died from vaccine reactions in 2018 in the US.
This is of course a total misconstrual of what a VAERS report actually involves, or indeed implies. To quote the CDC -- who jointly administer it, so they'd kinda know! --
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vaers/index.html said:
Approximately 30,000 VAERS reports are filed each year. About 85-90% of the reports describe mild side effects such as fever, arm soreness, and crying or mild irritability. The remaining reports are classified as serious, which means that the adverse event resulted in permanent disability, hospitalization, life-threatening illness, or death. While these problems happen after vaccination, they are rarely caused by the vaccine.
Or to further quote a paediatric (most of these deaths are SIDS, essentially) infectious disease specialist:
Buddy Creech said:
As humans, we still equate temporal association with causation. From the Latin phrase, post hoc ergo propter hoc, we intuitively conclude that if something happens “after it” then it must be “because of it.”
 

alaimacerc

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